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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Not quite. Voltage drop in wires and
connectors are much higher at high current <span class=GramE>( I</span> = E/R).
For the same reasons power companies use very high voltage transmission
systems.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Keith Hoard<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, January 23, 2006
10:46 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'NSRCA Mailing List'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] E
Stuff</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Aren’t automobiles
supposed to be going to higher voltage system due to all of the electrical
components people are adding to cars? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Wouldn’t this also
work for electric motors to reduce the amount of amps. . . same number of
cells, just run them all in series and reduce the current?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Isn’t a Watt is a
Watt; whether it is 100amps at 14 volts, or 100volts at 14 amps?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Maybe I should cut down
the caffeine this early in the morning. . . .<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Keith L.
Hoard<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Collierville,
TN<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>khoard@midsouth.rr.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
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size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Dean Pappas<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, January 23, 2006
9:30 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] E
Stuff</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Hi Stu,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>They'll quit at 10S, or
42VDC. That's the voltage above which electrical codes (both local and
international ) say you need to treat wiring as if it was "mains"
wiring, with insulation and creepage distance requirements. It's not a big
deal, really. You have a house full of wiring, including the power supply
of everything that plugs into a wall, that meets the requirements, without
having to do anything fancy. LiPoly is easier to construct for high current
discharge. With Li-iion, it is easier to get high energy density, at the
expense of current delivery. Some of the early 2S lithium-ion setups for flight
packs were actually dropping down below the regulator voltage setpoint under
peak loads. Don Szczur's Dad diagnosed that one, at least in this part of the
country. It's gotten better since then.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>later,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Dean</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Dean Pappas <br>
Sr. Design Engineer <br>
Kodeos Communications <br>
111 Corporate Blvd. <br>
South Plainfield, N.J. 07080 <br>
(908) 222-7817 phone <br>
(908) 222-2392 fax <br>
d.pappas@kodeos.com <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Stuart Chale<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, January 23, 2006
8:08 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'NSRCA Mailing List'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] E
Stuff</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I just read where Dewalt
will also be offering Li-ion powered tools. I think they are running at
32 volts. Didn’t we start with 9.6? If this keeps going you
will be able to electrocute yourself with these tools soon enough </span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Is there a significant
weight savings with Li-poly compared to Li-ion?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Stuart<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Dean Pappas<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sunday, January 22, 2006
5:59 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] E
Stuff</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Stu,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>As it turns out, Lithium Ion cells are just as touchy
about overvoltage, and the like. About 75 cell phones a year explode. A buddy
of mine used to be the strategic supply-line guy for Motorola phones. His
contacts in the engineering group there told me that Mot puts overvoltage
protection, internal cell pressure detection, over-current detection,
and undervoltage charge prevention protection in every pack/phone.
That is what they determined to be necessary to make litium ions acceptably
safe. After all that, you hear about problems, ususally with non OEM cells.
Also since all cell phones run with 1S packs, there are no balance issues.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I can see Milwaukee pack powered Sport stuff in our
future, though! I'm guessing they are 7S or 8S, based on the 28V marking on the
box.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>later,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Dean P.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>-----Original Message----- <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org on behalf of Stuart Chale <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sat 1/21/2006 5:40 PM <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'NSRCA Mailing List' <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] E
Stuff</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>We already have two power
tool companies with Li+ ion power packs. As I understand it Li+poly are
lighter per amount of energy but it seems more dangerous with respect to
charging. (any battery guru’s are welcome to better explain some of
the differences, I would be more than interested). </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I would suspect that
saving a few ounces on a battery pack for a hand tool if not as safe would not
be in the toolmakers best interest. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Anyone know of other industries
that would use LI+Poly and require the discharging abilities that we do?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Also on a quick google
search lithium fiber batteries popped up. Maybe there is something even
more promising on the horizon?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Personally I would like
to see the next generation of batteries before buying several sets.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Stuart</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>vicenterc@comcast.net<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, January 21, 2006
5:12 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> NSRCA Mailing List; NSRCA
Mailing List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Jerry Stebbins<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] E
Stuff</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Jerry,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Today we got two e-mails. One with 30 cycles the
other over 170. At the Nats. a very well know pilot told me 60
average. As we can see, it is all over the map. I would like to go
electric and the advantages of electric power in pattern are evident.
However, I am not ready until battery companies give us some minimum
expectation in regard battery life. Clearly time will tell. I
believe that when we start to see the power tools manufacturers installing LiPo
in their equipment we would be able to expect a decent life of this packs under
high current draw conditions.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Vicente Bortone <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>-------------- Original message -------------- <br>
From: "Jerry Stebbins" <JAStebbins@worldnet.att.net> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Vicente, I hope that is "tongue
in cheek", because any battery manufacturer to warranty to that, or almost
any extent would be killed by his/her lawyers. They would have so many
"exceptions" that they would "never be at fault". </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If that is anyone's criteria it wll
be a long time before they switch.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jerry</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net" title="vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</a>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> ; <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Saturday,
January 21, 2006 2:51 PM</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] E Stuff</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Scott,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I am waiting for my second Abbra. If Tanic gives
me a written warranty that the battery is going to last around 250 cycles of
Master rounds I will make the switch. Is that possible? I will
follow charging and break in instructions.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Vicente Bortone <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>-------------- Original message -------------- <br>
From: "Scott Anderson" <<a href="mailto:scott@rcfoamy.com">scott@rcfoamy.com</a>>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=4 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Vicente,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=4 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>You also have to look at
replacing bearing, changing batteries in the support equipment (glow driver/
electric starter) and servos after a time from vibration, this will increase
your glow cost per flight .. Dan Landis and I are using Tanic packs and he
flies FAI and has a set of sticks ( Battery) with over 170 flight and you can't
tell the diffrence from that pack and on with less time on it.. I have just
started using Tanic and the results are very good, Just follow there
"breakin" for the packs.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=4 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I made the jump to
electric in 05 and after the first flight I was hooked and sold all glow fuel
and glow planes.. If you look around you still make the conversion
without breaking the bank.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=4 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Just my 2 cents</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=4 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Scott Anderson</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=4 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>D3 AVP nsrca 529</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=4 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Team Tanicpacks.com</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=4 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Team PMA</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net" title="vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</a>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> ; <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">Discussion List, NSRCA</a> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Saturday,
January 21, 2006 1:35 PM</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] E Stuff</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Unfurtunetely, I have to estimate the cost. I
did an estimate how much is the cost to run my 2c motor per flight. At
$15/gallon using 14 oz of fuel per fly the cost is $1.75 per flight. This
number is correct since I usually flight between 200-300 flights per
year. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>The question is: what is the life of the
batteries? Base of the feedback I got at the Nats. the life flying F3A is
around 60 flights. Therefore, if I am correct the cost per fly is
$11. Assuming that I do 250 flights per year the cost of electric is
$2,750/yr. The equivalent cost of glow (2C) is $440/year. With two
kids in college my option is clear. I am assuming that the cost of
batteries is $640 but not sure now. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Probably I am wrong in these numbers. Clearly
the cost of the batteries has to come down or the cycles have to go up to
around 400 cycles to get equivalent cost to glow. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Any information on this regard is welcome,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Vicente Bortone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>-------------- Original message -------------- <br>
From: "Earl Haury" <ehaury@houston.rr.com> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The E info on the list has been
scant. Probably some are reluctant to hype / criticize products because of
their involvement with suppliers. Some of us are just blindly exploring
options, gathering data / information, and forming opinions without experience
to back up our conclusions. Certainly information offered by those with
experience is very welcome and appreciated. Those who are qualified experts in
the various fields that can correct / clarify information gained through the
school of hard knocks are not only welcome, but I suspect somewhat obligated to
protect the rest of us. As this entire topic expands there will be conflicting
opinions which in themselves provide info - that's what this list is for and no
one should take offense that some prefer other views.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>After teasing the E guys at the Nats
I recognized that the E powered airplanes flew better (I'll admit to being
obstinate - but not totally dumb). There were also differences that seemed
related more to E equipment choices than differences in pilot skills. The info
published by Jason, Frack, Adam, Chad, and others (in RCU forums) provided an
insight to the various equipment choices (and passionate defense of same in
some cases). Interestingly, a lot of the discussions revolve around equipment
type rather than the effect on flight characteristics.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>So - I set about trying to determine
if E flies better and why. So far the answer is yes and I'm not sure. While
differences in dynamics can be identified, it's hard to quantify the effects.
For example, the lighter / slower rotating E prop generates a lower gyroscopic
precession force during looping maneuvers than glow - this also suggests the
lower rotating mass of a geared motor might be better. The lighter motor
(compared to glow engine) up front can result in a lower pitch
moment of inertia if the tail is light enough to allow the battery mass to be
close to the CG. Airplane smoothness in rough air is markedly better with E. (I
did most of my comparisons with twin Partners - one glow and one E - at about
the same flight weight.) This may be an effect of the large diameter prop
or lack of vibration effect on the servos. As others have noted, thrust
application is very good with E as the slower prop is efficient and the mo! ! !
tor is instantly responsive and very linear. E can be flown slower than or as
fast as glow, the airplane is more stable with E when slow - again
probably the large prop effect. Overall, it's easier to fly well with E but E
won't fix sloppy flying.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>As with most things in model
aviation - there are learning curves. Some suppliers are better than others,
some equipment is better than others, some choices will be revisited after
experience is gained. The hardest thing to get used to is the metrification of
cost - kilo dollars. Not that E is that much more expensive than glow - just
that very little from glow is useable with E. That means one must acquire
motors, controllers, batteries, chargers, power supplies, meters, connectors,
wire, props, etc. pretty much from scratch.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If there's interest in this becoming
a thread I'll discuss the reasons for some of my choices of equipment and the
data I've generated / will generate with the full understanding that I might be
operating under false assumptions and some of this stuff will change - I'm
still learning.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Earl</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote>
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size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
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