<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Actually, Falcon Batteries here in Houston are in
the process of introducing F3A packs (Predator Pro or Carnivore - not sure what
they've settled on) that come with a 6 month warranty. They're confident that
through exact cell matching (packs come with a "pedigree" listing individual
cell specs) and their testing that they can support the warranty. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Earl</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=JAStebbins@worldnet.att.net
href="mailto:JAStebbins@worldnet.att.net">Jerry Stebbins</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:29
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] E
Stuff</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Vicente, I hope that is "tongue in cheek",
because any battery manufacturer to warranty to that, or almost any extent
would be killed by his/her lawyers. They would have so many "exceptions" that
they would "never be at fault". </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If that is anyone's criteria it wll be a long
time before they switch.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jerry</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> ; <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:51
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] E
Stuff</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Scott,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am waiting for my second Abbra. If Tanic gives me a written
warranty that the battery is going to last around 250 cycles of Master
rounds I will make the switch. Is that possible? I will
follow charging and break in instructions.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vicente Bortone </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Scott Anderson" <<A
href="mailto:scott@rcfoamy.com">scott@rcfoamy.com</A>> <BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Vicente,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff size=4>You also have to look at
replacing bearing, changing batteries in the support equipment (glow
driver/ electric starter) and servos after a time from vibration, this
will increase your glow cost per flight .. Dan Landis and I are using
Tanic packs and he flies FAI and has a set of sticks ( Battery) with over
170 flight and you can't tell the diffrence from that pack and on with
less time on it.. I have just started using Tanic and the results are very
good, Just follow there "breakin" for the packs.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>I made the jump to electric in
05 and after the first flight I was hooked and sold all glow fuel and glow
planes.. If you look around you still make the conversion without
breaking the bank.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Just my 2 cents</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Scott Anderson</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>D3 AVP nsrca 529</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Team
Tanicpacks.com</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Team PMA</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> ;
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">Discussion List,
NSRCA</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 21, 2006
1:35 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] E
Stuff</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Unfurtunetely, I have to estimate the cost. I did an estimate
how much is the cost to run my 2c motor per flight. At $15/gallon
using 14 oz of fuel per fly the cost is $1.75 per flight. This
number is correct since I usually flight between 200-300 flights per
year. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The question is: what is the life of the batteries? Base of
the feedback I got at the Nats. the life flying F3A is around 60
flights. Therefore, if I am correct the cost per fly is $11.
Assuming that I do 250 flights per year the cost of electric is
$2,750/yr. The equivalent cost of glow (2C) is $440/year.
With two kids in college my option is clear. I am assuming that
the cost of batteries is $640 but not sure now. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Probably I am wrong in these numbers. Clearly the cost of the
batteries has to come down or the cycles have to go up to around
400 cycles to get equivalent cost to glow. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Any information on this regard is welcome,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vicente Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Earl Haury"
<ehaury@houston.rr.com> <BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The E info on the list has been scant.
Probably some are reluctant to hype / criticize products because of
their involvement with suppliers. Some of us are just blindly
exploring options, gathering data / information, and forming opinions
without experience to back up our conclusions. </FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Certainly information offered by those with experience is very
welcome and appreciated. Those who are qualified experts in the
various fields that can correct / clarify information gained through
the school of hard knocks are not only welcome, but I suspect somewhat
obligated to protect the rest of us. As this entire topic expands
there will be conflicting opinions which in themselves provide info -
that's what this list is for and no one should take offense
that some prefer other views.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>After teasing the E guys at the Nats I
recognized that the E powered airplanes flew better (I'll admit to
being obstinate - but not totally dumb). There were also differences
that seemed related more to E equipment choices than differences in
pilot skills. The info published by Jason, Frack, Adam, Chad, and
others (in RCU forums) provided an insight to the various equipment
choices (and passionate defense of same in some cases). Interestingly,
a lot of the discussions revolve around equipment type rather than the
effect on flight characteristics.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So - I set about trying to determine if E
flies better and why. So far the answer is yes and I'm not sure. While
differences in dynamics can be identified, it's hard to quantify the
effects. For example, the lighter / slower rotating E prop generates a
lower gyroscopic precession force during looping maneuvers than glow -
this also suggests the lower rotating mass of a geared motor might be
better. The lighter motor (compared to glow engine) up front
can result in a lower pitch moment of inertia if the
tail is light enough to allow the battery mass to be close to the CG.
Airplane smoothness in rough air is markedly better with E. (I did
most of my comparisons with twin Partners - one glow and one E - at
about the same flight weight.) This may be an effect of the
large diameter prop or lack of vibration effect on the servos. As
others have noted, thrust application is very good with E as the
slower prop is efficient and the mo! ! tor is instantly responsive and
very linear. E can be flown slower than or as fast as glow, the
airplane is more stable with E when slow - again probably the
large prop effect. Overall, it's easier to fly well with E but E won't
fix sloppy flying.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As with most things in model aviation -
there are learning curves. Some suppliers are better than others, some
equipment is better than others, some choices will be revisited after
experience is gained. The hardest thing to get used to is the
metrification of cost - kilo dollars. Not that E is that much more
expensive than glow - just that very little from glow is useable with
E. That means one must acquire motors, controllers, batteries,
chargers, power supplies, meters, connectors, wire, props, etc.
pretty much from scratch.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If there's interest in this becoming a
thread I'll discuss the reasons for some of my choices of equipment
and the data I've generated / will generate with the full
understanding that I might be operating under false assumptions and
some of this stuff will change - I'm still learning.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Earl</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>