<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Vicente, I hope that is "tongue in cheek", because
any battery manufacturer to warranty to that, or almost any extent would be
killed by his/her lawyers. They would have so many "exceptions" that they would
"never be at fault". </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If that is anyone's criteria it wll be a long time
before they switch.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jerry</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> ; <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:51
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] E
Stuff</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Scott,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am waiting for my second Abbra. If Tanic gives me a written
warranty that the battery is going to last around 250 cycles of Master rounds
I will make the switch. Is that possible? I will follow
charging and break in instructions.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vicente Bortone </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Scott Anderson" <<A
href="mailto:scott@rcfoamy.com">scott@rcfoamy.com</A>> <BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Vicente,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff size=4>You also have to look at
replacing bearing, changing batteries in the support equipment (glow driver/
electric starter) and servos after a time from vibration, this will increase
your glow cost per flight .. Dan Landis and I are using Tanic packs and he
flies FAI and has a set of sticks ( Battery) with over 170 flight and you
can't tell the diffrence from that pack and on with less time on it.. I have
just started using Tanic and the results are very good, Just follow there
"breakin" for the packs.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>I made the jump to electric in 05
and after the first flight I was hooked and sold all glow fuel and glow
planes.. If you look around you still make the conversion without
breaking the bank.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Just my 2 cents</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Scott Anderson</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>D3 AVP nsrca 529</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Team Tanicpacks.com</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Team PMA</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> ; <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">Discussion List, NSRCA</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 21, 2006 1:35
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] E
Stuff</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Unfurtunetely, I have to estimate the cost. I did an estimate
how much is the cost to run my 2c motor per flight. At $15/gallon
using 14 oz of fuel per fly the cost is $1.75 per flight. This
number is correct since I usually flight between 200-300 flights per
year. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The question is: what is the life of the batteries? Base of the
feedback I got at the Nats. the life flying F3A is around 60
flights. Therefore, if I am correct the cost per fly is $11.
Assuming that I do 250 flights per year the cost of electric is
$2,750/yr. The equivalent cost of glow (2C) is $440/year. With
two kids in college my option is clear. I am assuming that the cost
of batteries is $640 but not sure now. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Probably I am wrong in these numbers. Clearly the cost of the
batteries has to come down or the cycles have to go up to around 400
cycles to get equivalent cost to glow. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Any information on this regard is welcome,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vicente Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Earl Haury"
<ehaury@houston.rr.com> <BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The E info on the list has been scant.
Probably some are reluctant to hype / criticize products because of
their involvement with suppliers. Some of us are just blindly exploring
options, gathering data / information, and forming opinions without
experience to back up our conclusions. </FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Certainly information offered by those with experience is very
welcome and appreciated. Those who are qualified experts in the various
fields that can correct / clarify information gained through the school
of hard knocks are not only welcome, but I suspect somewhat obligated to
protect the rest of us. As this entire topic expands there will be
conflicting opinions which in themselves provide info - that's what this
list is for and no one should take offense that some prefer other
views.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>After teasing the E guys at the Nats I
recognized that the E powered airplanes flew better (I'll admit to being
obstinate - but not totally dumb). There were also differences that
seemed related more to E equipment choices than differences in pilot
skills. The info published by Jason, Frack, Adam, Chad, and others (in
RCU forums) provided an insight to the various equipment choices (and
passionate defense of same in some cases). Interestingly, a lot of the
discussions revolve around equipment type rather than the effect on
flight characteristics.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So - I set about trying to determine if E
flies better and why. So far the answer is yes and I'm not sure. While
differences in dynamics can be identified, it's hard to quantify the
effects. For example, the lighter / slower rotating E prop generates a
lower gyroscopic precession force during looping maneuvers than glow -
this also suggests the lower rotating mass of a geared motor might be
better. The lighter motor (compared to glow engine) up front
can result in a lower pitch moment of inertia if the tail
is light enough to allow the battery mass to be close to the CG.
Airplane smoothness in rough air is markedly better with E. (I did most
of my comparisons with twin Partners - one glow and one E - at about the
same flight weight.) This may be an effect of the large diameter
prop or lack of vibration effect on the servos. As others have noted,
thrust application is very good with E as the slower prop is efficient
and the mo! ! tor is instantly responsive and very linear. E can be
flown slower than or as fast as glow, the airplane is more stable
with E when slow - again probably the large prop effect. Overall,
it's easier to fly well with E but E won't fix sloppy
flying.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As with most things in model aviation -
there are learning curves. Some suppliers are better than others, some
equipment is better than others, some choices will be revisited after
experience is gained. The hardest thing to get used to is the
metrification of cost - kilo dollars. Not that E is that much more
expensive than glow - just that very little from glow is useable with E.
That means one must acquire motors, controllers, batteries, chargers,
power supplies, meters, connectors, wire, props, etc. pretty much
from scratch.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If there's interest in this becoming a
thread I'll discuss the reasons for some of my choices of equipment and
the data I've generated / will generate with the full understanding that
I might be operating under false assumptions and some of this stuff will
change - I'm still learning.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Earl</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>