[NSRCA-discussion] New FAI Rule Changes

[flyintexanmark]

Mr. Watson's comments are excellent and the true real life flight examples using the new mentioned technology should be seen by everyone in person as soon a possible. The reality spoken by Glen should be embraced so all can really understand the realities of distance vs box and maneuver sizing. The possibilities to improve our standards, the rules, and understanding of human judging limitations are hard to count when thinking of the in person view of the autonomous flight of a 2m plane. A judge training tool like no other we have ever had. I hope we can eventually all see such an example in person and begin to employ judging criteria that are truly measurable rather than what seems to look good up in the sky. Ambiguity in scoring IMO, is truly the fastest path to disenfranchise long term pattern enthusiasts.  This is an opportunity to vastly improve our consistency among judges far and wide. I really hope we can possibly bring the brilliant developer and his aircraft to a Nats as soon as possible to do a demonstration in front of as many people as possible to witness it from a judge's seated location relative to the aircraft. Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 Ultra 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: GLEN WATSON via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Date: 4/5/23  9:28 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New FAI Rule Changes I believe the FAI weight increase will influence future rules around the size of the aerobatic box. I've been privileged with others to witnessed in real-time autonomous/computer flights configured with basic-pattern maneuvers flown by an Epowered 2m plane. This consisted of center, turn-around maneuvers including a rolling circle flown at proper distance within box limits. The recorded playbacks were viewed on Flightcoach's Plotter immediately following the flights. The very credible developer of this autonomous effort will by me and should by others remain unknown.  AMA flyers should keep in mind what FAI adopts will flow downhill to AMA rules eventually. The following are my opinions from the autonomous flights I witnessed combined with my impression from my own Flightcoach Masters 2023 flights recently reordered...1) The increased weight rule for 2024 could influence larger/heavier aircraft designs which could/should possibly influence the size of the current aerobatic box? Flight coach (my opinion) is demonstrating it is extremely difficult to execute and demonstrate a straight line before/after and in-between every in-box maneuver.2) Regardless of equipment constant speed is not realistic. "Constant" implies the same or continuous. Those viewing their fight data via Flightcoach understand "constant” is not possible. The wording of this criteria in FAI's rules should evolve to say something like "similar speed".  3) It is not feasible given today's technology to replace subjective judging. Flight qualities such as smooth/gracefulness, geometry especially radii, entry and exit altitudes, and box position portrayed by Flightcoach is way different when witnessed real-time.  At this juncture of technology there is no substitute for what the Pilot does to manage these flight aspects to make things appear correct to human judges to be compliant with the rules.~Glen> On 04/05/2023 3:00 PM Andrew Jesky via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:> >  > I fear it causes manufactures to relaxes their standard to make light airplanes, then the power requirements will need to be adjusted accordingly…> > Andrew > > Sent from my iPhone> > > On Apr 5, 2023, at 2:51 PM, Mark Atwood via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:> > > > Tony,> > > > I would argue you were ON time.  At this point I think weight change is 10 years too late and will only serve to escalate costs in the sport (My opinion).  At this point the Glow/Electric debate is basically over and electric power has proven itself viable in the current weight scheme.  More allowance will only lead to higher volume aircraft with lighter wing loadings.  Thus… retooling.  Which will cost both manufacturers and participants more money.  > > > > -M> > > > On Apr 5, 2023, at 12:39 PM, Anthony Frackowiak <frackowiak at sbcglobal.net> wrote:> > > > Well, the weight rule is exactly what I proposed for AMA several years ago. I guess I was just ahead of my times.> > > > Tony Frackowiak> > > >> On Apr 5, 2023, at 8:57 AM, Mark Atwood via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:> >> > >> Hey All,> >> > >> Attached are the results from the CIAM plenary meeting and vote that took place on April 1st.  These rule changes will go into effect in 2024.  Most of the rules that address F3A are minor and merely clarify clerical issues in the rulebook or help outline procedures.  There are also changes to the wording around telemetry, but again, only for better clarity. But there are TWO notable rule changes.  Neither of which we supported.> >> > >> 1) Increase the weight limit to 5.5Kg TAKE OFF WEIGHT.   This is a straight up increase for electric, and a change to weighing procedure for glow planes to include FULL tank of fuel.   The issues here are obvious and I know we have many on both sides of this discussion, but it’s the new rule in FAI.> >> > >> 2) This one confounds me.   They have changed the judging guidelines, such that they no longer want accurate geometry relative to the aircrafts plane of flight, but instead want geometric accuracy FROM THE JUDGES PERSPECITVE.    In other words, a half loop at the end of the box needs to LOOK round, rather than BE round relative to the plane of flight.   It completely changes our way of flying and makes tools like flight coach useless.  > >> > >> Personally, I can’t imagine this will last, and more over I can’t imagine this will actually be used.  A few of us (US/ UK / AUS) fought hard against it, but in the end it won out.  They had no explanation as to how cross box maneuvers will accomplish this (such as a rolling circle) but insisted this is what was wanted.  I’m sure there will be much discussion at events prior to this going into effect.> >> > >> There were also some minor changes for how ties are handled and better language and procedure for handling smaller championship events (<40 pilots). But most of that is benign.   > >> > >> > >> F3A Starts on page 25> >> > >> <CIAM 2023 ePlenary Meeting - Proposals_Final_v1.pdf>_______________________________________________> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list> >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion> > > > > > _______________________________________________> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion> _______________________________________________> NSRCA-discussion mailing list> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion_______________________________________________NSRCA-discussion mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
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