[NSRCA-discussion] new rules proposals

[Vogel, Peter]

The point is to make someone flying clean geometry and centering, etc. to be able to win against a 2M plane despite having (necessarily) more obvious corrections from atmospheric interference

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From: NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on behalf of John Fuqua via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2019 4:51 PM
To: 'Monte Richard'; tjpritchett at aol.com; 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] new rules proposals

This email is from an external sender.

Okay.    Then tell me what is the motivation for a newcomer to enter a contest when he knows he probably does not have a chance to win/place.    I thought the idea was to attract newbie’s to pattern.   If all the perceptions we have discussed and cussed have any semblance of truth then just allowing smaller planes to fly will not get them interested.    We have that paradigm now.    I guess I do not understand what all the discussion was about.

From: Monte Richard [mailto:mrichard at compassengineering.com]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2019 6:19 PM
To: tjpritchett at aol.com; General pattern discussion
Cc: underdw at gmail.com; johnfuqua at embarqmail.com
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] new rules proposals

We had a pilot at the Cajun Nats finish second place with a PHOENIX 7 against at least 5 other 2 meter planes. With the 10% no one could even have a chance against him.

It certainly isn’t right to give a lesser pilot the win over a better pilot like John suggested, just because he flies a smaller plane. That certainly isn’t what our sport or competition is about.
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On Jan 18, 2019, at 6:07 PM, tim pritchett via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
Keep in mind, for analysis below, no consideration is being given to whether pilot 1 and pilot 2's planes were different.  What we don't know is how much 'better' a pilot flies a 2M vs. a 1.75 or smaller airplane to critique the 10%.  We'd be hard pressed, I think, to get a firm, accurate number to represent that difference.  We'd have to have a single pilot fly both sized planes in front of a set of judges, probably multiple times, to know if there was any real difference at all.
That said, it's a penalty - something a pilot must choose to work with or around.  If we want to discourage 2M, then pick a high number.  If it's to level the field, pick a lower one.

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Underkofler via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
To: John Fuqua <johnfuqua at embarqmail.com<mailto:johnfuqua at embarqmail.com>>; General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
Sent: Fri, Jan 18, 2019 5:38 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] new rules proposals
I was thinking that 10% was a bit high.  Could also do a lower % or Int than Sportsman.

John, I hope the idea of any of these rules proposals is NOT to allow the lesser pilot to win!
We just are talking about leveling the playing field to account for equipment.

On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 3:32 PM John Fuqua via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
Monte
I sort of arbitrarily picked 10%.    Do the math and suggest a better number.   Although I think the idea is that the newcomer should have a good chance of placing/winning even though he/she may not be the best pilot.

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] On Behalf Of Monte Richard via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2019 3:18 PM
To: Monte Richard; General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] new rules proposals

I just went into one of last years contests in intermediate. Pilot one’s first round scored a raw score of 350 and 331, his average raw score was 340.5 (he won the round). Pilot two’s raw score for round one was 338 and 324.5, his average raw score was 331.25, add in the 10% handicap and it becomes 364.375. This moves him to first place in the round by a high margin. Totally changes the results. Add to that the normalizing and it becomes almost insurmountable, considering pilot one outflew pilot two.
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On Jan 18, 2019, at 2:58 PM, Monte Richard <mrichard at compassengineering.com<mailto:mrichard at compassengineering.com>> wrote:
Add in the Kfactors and in Sportsman the total raw score can be 250 making the 10% handicap 25 points.
Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 18, 2019, at 2:28 PM, Monte Richard via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
10% is a lot. sportsman has 18 maneuvers so a perfect flight has a possibility of 180 points in raw score, 10% of that is 18 points. A flight with all 9’s would be a raw score of 162, 10% is 16.2 points. That pretty much means a pilot without the 10% advantage has to beat the pilot with the advantage by 1 point per maneuver on all the maneuvers to beat him, if they tie more than 2 maneuvers, then the handicap beats him. 10% is a high factor to overcome.
Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 18, 2019, at 2:15 PM, Daniel Underkofler via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
John,
 I think you've got a wording problem in your -05 proposal.
You say: 10% when "length/width DOES exceed 71in"
I think you meant: 10% when" length AND width DO NOT exceed 71in"

Dan

On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 6:46 AM John Fuqua via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
FYI for all.

There are 3 new rules proposals on the AMA website.    Suggest folks take a look.

John Fuqua
cell 850-974-6655

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