Thanks Joe...
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-------- Original message --------From: Joe Dunnaway via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Date: 1/9/19 6:24 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Larry Diamond via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposal - Limiting Size/Power for Sportsman and Intermediate
Another minor point Larry.... Most of the AMA Contest board members
monitor and contribute to this list. They are listening to what is
being discussed. Your opinions do make a difference.
Joe Dunnaway
On 1/9/2019 6:08 PM, Larry Diamond via
NSRCA-discussion wrote:
Just a minor point, to echo Joe's words...
The rules proposal has been submitted and it is not an NSRCA
decision right. The rule is out there for AMA members to vote
on. I suspect most of the votes are typically from the NSRCA
members, albeit open for all AMA members to vote on.
There are differing opinions on this rules proposal. An
honest open discussion within this discussion group is healthy.
None-the-less, it will proceed through the AMA process.
LD
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-------- Original message --------
From: Monte Richard <mrichard at compassengineering.com>
Date: 1/9/19 5:41 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: tjpritchett at aol.com, General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>,
vellum2 at bellsouth.net, ldiamond at diamondrc.com
Subject: RE: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposal - Limiting
Size/Power for Sportsman and Intermediate
Excellent
points Tim. Let’s not shoot ourselves in the foot with
restrictions that aren’t totally thought out and all
ramifications explored first. Once someone enters Sportsman
with a sport plane and flies a few contests, they see that
as a whole, the pilots there are very helpful and willing to
assist them. They usually want to fly a 2 meter plane when
moving up to Intermediate, and most of the time have made a
few friends in the sport who help them find a used 2 meter
plane at a reasonable price to get started. They also
realize that a well-trimmed sport plane can compete pretty
well in Intermediate.
Monte
Richard
2019
AMA Pattern Nats ED
AMA
5581, NSRCA 4469
NSRCA
D6 VP
mrichard at compassengineering.com
Cell
337-349-6627
From:
NSRCA-discussion
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
On Behalf Of tim pritchett via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2019 4:16 PM
To: vellum2 at bellsouth.net;
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; ldiamond at diamondrc.com
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposal -
Limiting Size/Power for Sportsman and Intermediate
Larry's comments tapped a thought I've been considering for
a while. Our planes are pretty cool, and attract a lot of
attention. You see folks walk the lines looking, and
stopping at the 2M Pattern Planes. I still do that at
contests. They are why I got into (and stay in) the sport
in the first place. If they were ugly, I wouldn't have
wanted or bought one. I think every one has an affinity for
the planes. When we were flying a lot of nitro, pipes and
retracts were not allowed in Novice (may still not be). I
flew a stick that year, and couldn't wait to get out to fly
the 'big stuff' in Sportsman. Young, poor, and stupid, but
I had an EU1-A!
In addition to restricting our own pilots who fly
Intermediate for many years, as was pointed out, we also
have potential recruits who look at the planes and want
to fly one. If we tell them no, you can't fly this
until you're capable of X class, today they would just
abandon the prospect and go buy a jet. I think our
planes carry some value in recruiting for the sport, and
are more of an asset than a liability. We should find
ways to leverage that 'passion' we all share.
Point also taken on the industrial impact. We should
know what our manufacturers/distributors think about
rules changes, as I'm sure they are impacted by
regulation, better or worse. They are a very integral
part of what we do, and should have a voice; a loud
one. Without them we have no sport.
My
$.02 (...most of it stolen)
-----Original
Message-----
From: Joe Walker via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>;
Larry Diamond <ldiamond at diamondrc.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 9, 2019 3:27 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposal -
Limiting Size/Power for Sportsman and Intermediate
Thanks
Larry!
As
a point of clarification, rules proposal
submittals are done by AMA members and not the
NSRCA (This is an AMA process). This
particular one was proposed by Mike Harrison
as an individual. We've been talking a lot
about how we can clarify this process so the
NSRCA can represent the community, but that's
an ongoing task. I love the motivation behind
looking to encourage participation of course.
Do I agree with the proposal as written? Not
entirely. I posted earlier that giving or
loaning our older, unused planes to folks that
show interest in seeing what pattern is all
about can be a compelling strategy since it
eliminates the "cost of entry" barrier
entirely.
I'd
encourage you to go re-read some of the
K-factors in the last year or two. We have
all been promoting aerobatic competition
flying inclusive of F3A, SPA, CPA, JPA, F3P
and IMAC with vigor. Bringing everyone together
is the clear path forward in my opinion.
Locally, we get a lot of crossover between
IMAC, SPA and AMA pattern. Jamie Strong even
created a contest for CPA and SPA planes in
March of this year. I'm looking forward to
that for sure (with an old Atlanta and MK
Arrow). So, I don't think that we have lost
sight as an organization, we are just looking
for ways to entice folks to bring their toys
out to play.
Enjoy!
Joe
On
Wednesday, January 9, 2019, 2:55:47 PM
EST, Larry Diamond via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
wrote:
Here
is the link to review the Rule
Change Proposal on the AMA
website, RCA20-02…
https://www.modelaircraft.org/sites/default/files/Comp/RCA20-02.pdf
Yes,
I read the complete proposal and
understand the 2 year grand-father
clause.
This
is a Ready, Fire, Aim mentality.
We are driving to impose a rule
change without understanding, or
accounting for, the root-cause of
the decline. The NSRCA will lose
more members than they think
because of this. The gamble is it
will somehow attract more members,
to not only replace those like me,
but we are arrogant enough to
think it will save the NSRCA by
increasing membership as a whole
because of this rule change.
Every
action taken, to my knowledge, by
rule change has caused another
layer of decline. Anyone, please
provide an example, with the data,
that shows changing the rules
regarding the Plane itself has
increased NSRCA membership. Just
one example with the data is all I
am asking, engine size, wing span,
length, anything that resulted in
a surge of NSRCA membership.
Are
we as an organization data driven?
Or, just willing to accept a good
sales pitch and not worry or
complicate things with data. If
it’s the later, then that is
politics. If politics prevails,
then I must agree with Bob Kane,
the end of NSRCA is inevitable.
What
is the data behind this rule
change? Real factual data, not
words or opinions.
The
thought behind the rule change,
which is seemingly more popular
than I thought it would be, is
presented to counter the decline
in Pattern. What isn’t addressed
with any sense of credibility is
the real unintended consequences
of current participants.
This
is a dose of reality !!!
From
my point of view only, let’s
assume this rule passes. This is
my situation and the decisions I
must consider. I’m willing to bet
I am not alone.
1)
I
have been in Intermediate since
2004, 15 years this year (NSRCA
3083).
2)
I
wanted and could afford some of
the best equipment on the market,
and no I am not sponsored so this
it is all out of pocket.
3)
I
currently own the following 2M
Planes
a.
1
– Of 10 Allures made in this
scheme from the World Championship
painted in Red/White/Blue with
Stars/Stripes.
b.
1
– Alchemy NIB
c.
1
– Shinden RTF
d.
1
– 2M Acuity RTF
e.
1
– Considering purchasing a CK Aero
Allure Bipe this summer.
i.
This
has been a discussion back and
forth with me and Bryan Hebert for
6+ months.
f.
Every
2M Plane has a set of Wing Bags
from Caroline.
g.
I
have 100% of all necessary Futaba
equipment for the Allure and
Alchemy, including Battery packs,
12+ (5S 5000mAh).
4)
My
total investment in 2M Pattern
planes is what, easily $15K+
You
count my investment based on
buying new with your own numbers…
Color me stupid, dumb, silly, or
maybe I just like the sexy 2M
planes regardless how well I fly.
Given
these facts, the unintended
consequences are, I will have
planes I can’t use and can’t sell
to recover any sizeable part of my
investment simply because of a
rule change.
More
importantly, you have cost CK
Aero, AJ Aircraft, and F3A
Unlimited future revenue in a
difficult market. Please explain
how this is good for Pattern?
I
don’t believe I am alone, but this
is somehow going to cause me to
want to stay in the NSRCA and be
enthusiastic about promoting
Pattern (sarcasm)?
Just
so that it is clear, if this rule
passes, it will force me out of
the NSRCA within two years. If I
continue to compete it will be in
IMAC, SPA CPA, or some other
discipline.
Which
brings me to the real reason for
the NSRCA decline.
We
are the SIG for the AMA for
Precision Aerobatics.
It is good to see we are, as a
SIG, embracing F3P. We let the CPA
and SPA get away and create a new
SIGs or organizations, when the
National
Society of Radio Controlled
Aerobatics
should have been inclusive, not
exclusive (you know, like
“Elitist”, as painful as that
sounds).
Root-Cause
(only an opinion) – We, the NSRCA,
are focused only on F3A, and now
F3P. We didn’t keep up with the
change of times and excluded
members, who then went a different
direction along with some of the
NSRCA membership to form the SPA,
CPA, etc… We need a paradigm shift
in the organization, not a rule
change like this.
Our
By-Laws state, “…promote the
construction and competitive
flying of radio controlled
aerobatic model airplanes…”,
not just F3A, and we lost sight of
that perspective. We need to
figure out how to unite all
precision aerobatic disciplines
for the survival and betterment of
everyone who enjoys precision
aerobatics. That is my proposal…
Best
Regards,
Larry
Diamond
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