[NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes

Thu Sep 27 09:57:16 AKDT 2018

Ok, thanks for the clarification Scott

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From: Scott McHarg <scmcharg at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2018 11:06:02 AM
To: rixsweeney at gmail.com; General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes

So...I wrote this rule several years ago when I was the chair of the rules proposal committee.  Rick, you  were on the committee the previous cycle and we tried to pass a rule similar to this which failed.  The rewrite passed.

If you actually follow guideline, the rule says that no plane will be left unrestrained or unattended if not on the runway and armed.  You can arm a plane anywhere you choose as long as someone is holding it.  So, you don't have to have someone walk  out to the runway with your plane, pull the canopy and then arm the plane.  It can be armed in the ready box as long as it's be restrained and attended.  Problem solved.

Scott A. McHarg

Takeoff is optional.  Landing is mandatory!

On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 9:56 AM Rick Sweeney via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
Right from the AMA competition guide.

At no time will a model be left unrestrained or unattended while running or with the electric motor power circuit(s) physically connected unless the model is on the runway.
Following the AMA guideline above,  a competitor with no way to physically connect\disconnect the circuit without removing the canopy would require the caller or pilot to carry the model out to the runway, pull the canopy and physically arm the circuit before takeoff. Once flight is complete, the caller or pilot would be required to walk out on the runway, pull the canopy and break the circuit physically before walking the plane back to the pits or to the sidelines.

Most pilots use several different callers during a contest and would not be comfortable having someone not familiar with their setup, pulling their canopy connecting the circuit and attaching the canopy before flight and then breaking the circuit once landing is complete.

More times than not, following the guidelines,  the pilot would be required to carry the plane out on the runway, pull the canopy, arm the circuit, walk back to the box and commence the flight. Landing will require this same scenario.

Rick

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From: NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>> on behalf of John Pavlick via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 11:58:43 PM
To: 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes

I agree. But sometimes it’s not stupidity that causes bad things to happen; it’s ignorance. There IS a difference: stupidity is when you KNOW something is wrong and you do it anyway. Ignorance is when you simply don’t know what wrong (or right) is.

Since I’m an AMA Instructor pilot, I see a lot of “new” people coming into our hobby. Many of them have a little electric airplane and they think it’s perfectly “safe” because it’s small and it’s powered by an electric motor. I tell them that in reality, this is not the case because of the fact that an electric motor can start spinning the prop VERY quickly and without any warning. Even a little one has a fair amount of power. I tell them to treat an electric power system the same way that you should treat a gun: It’s ALWAYS loaded (even when you think it isn’t). If you look at them this way, you will help to prevent accidents. At least that’s my hope.

I’ve seen people put their hands in the prop arc when they connect the battery in an electric plane. Does this mean they’re stupid? Maybe but maybe not. When I say: “did you ever think of what might happen if the motor suddenly started spinning when you connected the battery?” They usually flinch and stop what they’re doing. “Uh, no” is the typical answer. “Why, could that actually happen?” Of course we know that the speed controller needs to see a low throttle condition before it will arm itself so it’s extremely unlikely that this will happen but the reality is that it could and if you just develop good habits (restrain the model and keep your hands and fingers clear of the prop when you connect the battery) you won’t put yourself in harm’s way. Once I inform them of this they are now fully qualified to become stupid.

Here's something to think about: you’re setting up an electric model to fly with a buddy-box system. Assume that the airplane is trimmed out and flies safely with the Master/Instructor transmitter. In other words the throttle control works properly, the fail-safe is set up correctly, etc. When the buddy box is first connected and you’re making sure that it works properly (you need to do this before you fly with it) what might happen if you pull the trainer switch on the Master transmitter? Here’s a hint: is the throttle stick on the student transmitter in the low position AND is the throttle channel configured to operate in the correct direction? Remember, the model is “armed” because it was powered up with the master transmitter having its throttle set to the lowest position. Yeah, it could and DID happen to someone that I know. They had to put stitches into one of his arm muscles to patch him up and this was caused by a relatively small (30-inch wingspan) electric model. It took less than a second and it was a complete surprise. I wouldn’t call him stupid, he just didn’t realize what could (and did) happen.

An arming plug simply arms the motor. I don’t think it’s a bad idea to use/require one but I don’t think it’s going to make things a lot safer. If you still do something stupid or ignorant when the airplane is “armed” bad things can and probably will happen. The odds always favor Murphy. 😊

John Pavlick
Cell: 203-417-4971

[idslogo2]
Integrated Development Services

From: NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>> On Behalf Of Phil Spelt via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 1:02 PM
To: Joe Lachowski <jlachow at hotmail.com<mailto:jlachow at hotmail.com>>; General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes

No!!  Based on the conglomerate of incidents reported by a number of sources around the country -- including NSRCA and SPA experienced pilots.

I know of no solution for stupidity!

Phil Spelt, AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member
SPA L-18, Board Member, KCRC Emeritus
Oliver Springs, TN (865) 435-1476v (865) 604-0541c
On September 26, 2018 at 11:07 AM Joe Lachowski via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:

So you want to require an arming device based on a sport flyers stupidity.

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From: NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>> on behalf of Vicente Bortone via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 10:38:30 AM
To: Vogel, Peter; NSRCA NSRCA
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes

This is real experience.  About 3-4 years ago I was getting ready to fly with another friend.  Both of our planes were already in the pits and we just were talking before starting the day.  A pilot came with an electric plane and parked between us.  He left it there and decided that he needs to go and get something.  About a minute later his plane came to live suddenly and took us from the pits.  It starting to do an small loop and was coming directly toward us.  It was so fast that my friend said "take cover". We were lucky that the plane crashed in front of us and there were no more pilots flying or around.  It was so fast that I didn't have time to move an inch and could have hit us easily.  The plane didn't have an arming switch outside so there was no way for us to know if was armed.  The owner came and we never were able to figure out what really happened.

I think makes sense to put together a formal request that will require external disconnect outside the electric powered planes.  It is easy to justify since is already a requirement of the National Electrical Code and OSHA.  Anyone out there wants to put together a draft.  I will help to signed since I am a CD.

!Gone Flying!

Vicente "Vince" Bortone

On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 7:41 PM Vogel, Peter via NSRCA-discussion < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
Rule says you must disarm the plane before bringing into the pits, does not say how.  That can mean take off canopy and unplug.  I’ve moved to using a Jeti anti-spark bullet in-line on the red side of the battery-esc connection with the bullet routed to the outside of the plane.  Quick, simple, foolproof.  Anti-spark prevents carbon buildup on the bullets.

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From: NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>> on behalf of Phil Spelt via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2018 5:34:02 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes

Guys, what is the current status of arming devices in NSRCA for you electric airplanes?  Does anyone know what the AMA says about arming devices -- I can't find my way around the new web site yet, and this is the easy way out!  lol

Thanks,

Phil Spelt, AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member
SPA L-18, Board Member, KCRC Emeritus
Oliver Springs, TN (865) 435-1476v (865) 604-0541c

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