[NSRCA-discussion] NATS & Landing elimination

Thu Jul 13 04:28:33 AKDT 2017

No worries!
And Dave L., thanks for clarifying the executive limits ;-)
Carry on! 

    On Thursday, July 13, 2017 8:11 AM, Dr. Mike Harrison via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

 #yiv5516364811 #yiv5516364811 -- _filtered #yiv5516364811 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5516364811 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv5516364811 #yiv5516364811 p.yiv5516364811MsoNormal, #yiv5516364811 li.yiv5516364811MsoNormal, #yiv5516364811 div.yiv5516364811MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv5516364811 a:link, #yiv5516364811 span.yiv5516364811MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5516364811 a:visited, #yiv5516364811 span.yiv5516364811MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5516364811 p {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv5516364811 span.yiv5516364811hoenzb {}#yiv5516364811 span.yiv5516364811EmailStyle19 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv5516364811 .yiv5516364811MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv5516364811 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv5516364811 div.yiv5516364811WordSection1 {}#yiv5516364811 First of all, I must apologize, my timing is terrible.  This is not intended for the Nats at all.  I only meant to present it to the Masters sequence only, not any other classes. I did not make that clear.  Secondly, it was meant only as a thought to make the change while in the process of changing the Masters sequence.   I never said anything about changing the takeoff. None of this is related to the Nats.  I am not presenting this as an alternative way  to do the Masters at the Nats.  The Nats is not changing.  It is done.Sorry for the confusion and I am properly “WHAMMED” for this.I am out.Mike   From: Peter Vogel [mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 5:23 PM
To: Jon Lowe <jonlowe at aol.com>; General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>; Michael Harrison (drmikedds at sbcglobal.net) <drmikedds at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] NATS & Landing elimination  Mike,  I have always thought that the requirement for scored landing and takeoff in the lower classes without it being present in FAI was weird; and I have personally killed more than one landing gear block in sportsman in the effort to "not get a zero" on my landing which I think also creates more unsafe situations than safe situations particularly when there is a crosswind. So I agree with the *principle* of not having scored TO and Landing in any class.  However!  I will say this clearly: THE NATS IS NOT THE PLACE FOR THIS KIND OF CHANGE.  Jon and others have said it eloquently and backed by the rules.  The NATS is an AMA rulebook event and unless you are solving an otherwise unsolvable problem, you play it by the rulebook.  Fundamentally, what you propose DOES NOT SOLVE the problem you outlined.  Yes, it gives the judge a slightly longer break (about a 30 second difference between the end of one sequence and the plane dropping to 2 meters on approach to landing where I need to start paying attention again as a judge) between pilots but it DOES NOT SAVE TIME.     The alternative, (IMAC-style takeoff and circle outside the aerobatic space until your turn) is worse from a judge break perspective because you get less time between pilots, though it does save time, it does so at the risk of aircraft and injury to pilots.    Joe's already said it, the NSRCA would not support this suggested change, and I'd be shocked if the AMA supported it.  Peter+    On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Jon Lowe via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
For the CD/ED to make the change, it would have to be in the approved sanction, and announced before people sign up. I don't know why AMA would approve a sanction for a NATS rule book class that has rules deviations unless there are extraordinary issues involved. They do add unofficial events, such as this year's NATs Sportsman competition. I believe controlline and free flight also add unofficial events.Once the CD/ED is running the contest, they are God, answerable only to AMA, but are required to abide by the letter of the rules and sanction. Any decision they might make that is outside the rules would be subject to a protest. They can make changes for weather, and other things beyond their control, but the procedures to do so are outlined by the rulebook This is all outlined in the AMA CD manuals, and the test you take to become a CD.Not to put words in his mouth, but what I think Joe was saying, for this sequence cycle, no to deleting landings from the sequences. But, like I said in an earlier post, it would take more than just a sequence change in any event.Jon
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