[NSRCA-discussion] Proposed masters sequence thoughts

Sat Jul 8 18:01:26 AKDT 2017

I like the part where Randy Forbus asked were the meetings open to all, and
then the answer  was yes then stated he could get permission to attend.
Cant  wait to see everybody at the NATS.  My Dr says my flying days may be
over, but I will forever be there when I can mainly  enjoy the fellowship
with some of the greatest folks on the planet. Told my Dr what I did yall
never called flying anyway, but not a soul enjoys this hobby more than I.
So come on guys lets get our stuff together and have fun and in a
professional manner. We are not  DC so we can do it together. I have back
surgery next Wednesday and wont be able to fly and Dr says I should not
come, but plan to be there watching and enjoying a great group of friends.
But just remember if you are standing beside me and I call you DR its
because I told my real Dr I would be surrounded with Dr's. I had my heart
set on winning the Old Man Trophy in Intermediate, but gonna forfeit.  We
are just the best R/C group on the planet.  Cant wait to see everybody.
Tom Stennis has agreed to haul me around in his nice motor home, but lets
get one thing straight, he will be My Chauffer, and if some one hears me
call him Dr you have my permission to go ahead and shoot me....Love all you
guys....so lets quit the bickering, work that out professionally and have a
blast at Blytheville. Dr. Mike deserves our cooperation and help, took  a
big man to undertake this....
See yall in Blytheville......Doug Harvel.....aka....BOPOD

On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 8:17 PM, Joe Walker via NSRCA-discussion <
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

> Now that I’ve learned the discussion list lingo… +1 Chuck!
>
> and thanks Jon.  We agree on stuff too!  Yeah!
>
> Joe
>
> On Jul 8, 2017, at 8:57 PM, Chuck Hochhalter via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> This is all true but in my time of DVP not one meeting was closed door. If
> you want to be included, and correct me if I am wrong, ask the dvo to give
> you the call in info for the next meeting and speak your peace on any topic
> at the appropriate time, but when the meeting turns to the agenda that does
> not include public input be respectful and let the meeting commence and be
> a silent observer.
> Chuck
>
> *Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid*
> On Jul 8, 2017 7:46 PM, Jon Lowe via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> Tom,
> I will back Joe up on this one. The meetings tend to be long and dull,
> with brief periods of excitement when a controversial topic came up (like
> sequences). A lot of the meetings were taken up by routine VP reports,
> treasurer reports, and yes, the K-Factor, especially when we decided to go
> digital, plus change publishers for cost savings. We also had to mend
> fences between NSRCA and the AMA Contest board, as communication had
> completely broken down on rules proposals. To be honest, that took a lot of
> arm twisting, and we had some very frank and sometimes heated discussions,
> but we came to an amicable resolution. Yes, I tried to keep that issue out
> of the limelight as there were hurt feelings on both sides, and we needed
> to figure out a path ahead.
>
> When I was Pres, we would invite in people to BoD meetings like the Nats
> ED, organizers for the F3P team trials,, the World Champs Team manager,
> webmaster, special committee's, etc. Any of them can tell you how dull the
> meetings were, as most bailed out of the call as soon as they could!   Part
> of the problem is virtually all of the BoD meetings are conference calls,
> and getting a reliable conference call with so many people can be
> problematic. Further, we couldn't start before 9PM eastern, or 6 Pacific
> because of work schedules. I know Joe tries to hold meetings to an agenda,
> and so did I. He tries to wrap things up in an hour, whereas my meetings
> often went for 2, as we were trying to regain compliance with mandatory
> NSRCA and AMA requirements (not always successfully). Scott McHarg was a
> big help in making timely meeting minutes, and the invaluable Book of
> Motions, so we had a ready record of the final decisions made by motions.
> Before, we had to go back thru old minutes and try to find motions buried
> within. Often, "everybody knew" something had been voted on, but we had no
> real record.
>
> There used to be a BoD meeting at the Nats, but at some Nats very few
> officers could attend, so a meeting was pointless. The one year we did have
> one, everyone was so burned out at the end of a day of flying, that trying
> to do anything meaningful was tough. Some members came to that meeting, and
> I attended one before I became President.  I advised my successor Jon
> Carter, to not bother having one, but instead have an informal get together
> of any available officers. His second year, he had a general membership
> meeting, a good idea. I believe Joe intends to continue that.
>
> We never tried to exclude anyone from BoD meetings, but encouraged people
> to work thru their DVPs where possible. We tried to keep people abreast of
> issues thru the KFactor and this list. Joe is making every effort to do the
> same.
>
> Jon
>
> ------------------------------
> On Saturday, July 8, 2017 J via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
> Thanks Tom!
> It's not exclusionary. It's quite dull actually. The only reason it isn't
> a free for all is simply to respect everyone's time. The minutes are
> posted, even faster now so there is no mystery to anything. The budget
> reports are included. The topics of discussion are brought up by the DVP's.
> Every member has complete availability to bring up any topic they want to
> their DVP or any other member of the board. If there is a topic that you
> feel needs to be heard by the board or the entire membership, ask and you
> can be a guest at the meeting.
>
> Your point about not following the rules is very well taken because the
> rules aren't clearly accessible. As new people come into a position, they
> just start doing the best they can. I've made it my personal mission to
> collect and align all information in its various forms to be cleaned up,
> updated, and posted to the website in a logical and accessible location for
> everyone to see anything they want at any time. There is no restriction on
> information.
>
> What specifically is a concern to you Tom?  Just so I'm clear, I'm not
> asking what your impression of other people's options are, I'm asking for
> you specifically.
>
> Hope this is helpful.
>
> Joe walker,
> NSRCA President
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 8, 2017, at 5:42 PM, Tom Stennis via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> Joe,
> I have been listening to all the conversation on the discussion and it
> appears that the rules have always not been adhered to. Now do I understand
> That the board of directors are meeting in closed secession and the
> membership is not allowed to attend. This is totally unacceptable what does
> the board have to hide. You are destroying the organization with this this
> controlled information. I was an member of NSRCA when it was formed and
> understand that this type of action is why it is declining. No one has any
> confidence in the leadership.
> Tom Stennis
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jul 8, 2017, at 2:40 PM, Verne Koester via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Joe, but first, go out flying and have some fun - lol
>
> Verne Koester
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 8, 2017, at 3:26 PM, Joe Walker <vellum2 at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Transparency indeed!  That’s an easy fix.  On it and I’ll have those
> posted.
>
> Oh, the easy part!  LOL.  The BoD has a meeting on Wednesday night and
> I’ve added the survey to the agenda to talk about.  Survey data is always
> good information and I’m completely on board with gathering up all the
> information to help guide the decision making process.
>
> Thanks Verne!
>
> Joe
>
> On Jul 8, 2017, at 3:12 PM, Verne Koester <verne at mi.rr.com> wrote:
>
> First, go back and edit page 2 of the Sequence Development Guideline to
> describe all changes made from the original document to date. I think the
> buzzword for that is transparency.
>
> The survey part is easy. Ask the members what type of maneuvers they think
> should be at each level without putting a spin or sales pitch into the
> question and then act accordingly.  You should also be asking questions
> about rules proposals the NSRCA intends to submit to the AMA Contest Board.
> Lacking a survey to back up the proposal, it doesn't carry any more or less
> weight than any other submitted proposal.
>
> I've known you for a long time and consider you a friend. I have no doubt
> your intentions are good. My decision to quit the NSRCA happened before you
> became President. You just happened to walk in as I was walking out.
>
> I'm hearing a lot of dissension out on the Contest trail. Most of it
> centers around the schedules, past and proposed. Masters looks like FAI,
> Advanced looks like Masters, and Intermediate is basically just screwed in
> the process.
>
> FAI has turned into an elite, professional class that most pattern pilots
> don't and won't have the time or skill to participate in. Masters was not
> categorized as a "stepping stone" to FAI when I was on the Sequence
> Committee, it was a destination class. I suspect that's part of the
> invisible adjustments I referenced on page 2 of the Sequence Development
> Guide.
>
> If I were taking the survey, I'd tell you to take the integrated rollers
> and no hesitation reverse rolls out of Masters, and recognize that Advanced
> has more than enough on their plate learning to do a slow and 4 point roll,
> snap and spin in their schedule. Reclassifying a Figure M with Quarter
> Rolls as a K4 when it's always been a K5 and then throwing that in the mix
> for someone moving up from Intermediate is just outrageous. It was also the
> final straw that sent me out the door.
>
> Verne Koester
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 8, 2017, at 2:18 PM, Joe Walker <vellum2 at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> I completely understand that perspective Verne.  And I value that input.
>
> That said, part of the reason I decided to jump into the fire was to help
> turn things around.  I personally reached out to folks in D2 before
> throwing my hat into the ring and gained a lot of insight on some of the
> underlying concerns and it was a big contributor to me offering to change
> things.  D2 has been doing a lot of work to help improve the organization
> and it’s very much appreciated.  D4 was not chastised by “the Board”.  We
> did not leave a conversation that was on the table with clear direction on
> how to proceed and folks had different understandings.  We are working hard
> to ensure that doesn’t happen anymore by being clear with language and
> ensure we have all the information before making a decision on any topic.
> You’ll see that topic of clear communication and gathering all the
> information repeated over and over again, the sequence proposals bringing
> it to light once again.  You’ll notice that a big part of changing the
> guide this time is focused on clarification of language and terminology,
> rather than changing the intent.
>
> Regarding the survey of members, what would bring you back into the
> organization Verne?  What are the right questions do you feel need to be
> asked?  I’ll never have a problem asking for people’s thoughts.  My sole
> (soul? ;-) ) request is to keep the feedback focused on information and
> specifics.  That’s the only way to run an organization, right?
>
> Joe
>
> On Jul 8, 2017, at 1:25 PM, Verne Koester <verne at mi.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Joe,
> If it appears that I’m skeptical, you’re correct, I am.
> You very nearly lost the NSRCA D4 VP after he was chastised for seeking
> input from the members he represents before the schedules were officially
> made public.
> A few years ago, the NSRCA D2 resigned after his input within the Board
> was routinely ignored because he wasn’t part of the “inner circle”. The
> NSRCA lost nearly everyone from D2 in the process and they started their
> own organization called the Northeast Pattern Association. Nobody from the
> NSRCA even bothered to contact anyone from D2 to find out why. In fairness
> to you, you weren’t the President at that time.
> There’s been much mention of the Sequence Development Guidelines. Please
> look at Page 2 of that document. Numerous changes were made to it during
> the last administration which are properly noted and dated. However,
> there’s zero mention of what the changes actually were. So basically. It’s
> change the Sequence Development Guide it to whatever the Sequence Committee
> decides to do and then point to the guide as justification for what’s
> proposed. Pretty much turns it into a useless document.
>
> The time for a survey of NSRCA members is long overdue. Do that, ask the
> right questions, post the results, and then the request is reasonable.
>
> Verne Koester
>
> *From:* J [mailto:vellum2 at bellsouth.net <vellum2 at bellsouth.net>]
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 08, 2017 12:41 PM
> *To:* Verne Koester; General pattern discussion
> *Cc:* Vicente Bortone
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed masters sequence thoughts
>
> Thanks for chiming in Verne. Your perspective is very much appreciated.
>
> As a point of clarification, there is much listening going on. The
> perception that the board is acting devoid of any input is incorrect. The
> BoD's main responsibility is to ensure compliance. There were some issues
> that were out of compliance that have since been corrected and the result
> of the direction was a revised sequence that has now been posted for member
> comment. We are in that process now and it's our job to filter through
> those comments and consolidate that information to give back to the
> sequence committee for revisions.
>
> There has been much work in pulling this current proposal together that
> has included a lot of member input. And that process continues now. Let's
> all give the process a chance to work. Is that an unreasonable request?
>
> Best,
> Joe Walker,
> NSRCA President
>
>
>
> On Jul 8, 2017, at 11:21 AM, Verne Koester via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>
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