[NSRCA-discussion] New Masters Sequence

John Gayer jgghome at comcast.net
Fri Jul 7 18:58:03 AKDT 2017


Yes, the eye-catcher is the first maneuver in P17.

I see nothing wrong with cherry-picking maneuvers from the FAI catalog 
or full-size or IMAC or just making up new ones.
Just because we didn't invent a maneuver doesn't make it bad, it just 
makes it available for consideration. And as far as K-Factors are 
concerned, we don't /have /to use FAI K-factors when we use an FAI 
maneuver. In any case, there are issues with Kfactors in our guide as well.

When we use a maneuver from the FAI catalog that is not yet in the 
guide, it makes sense to consider using the Kfactor as well. Why 
wouldn't we?

John

On 7/7/2017 8:18 PM, Stuart Chale wrote:
>
> And I thought I was the sarcastic one!
>
> Maneuvers are and have been pulled from the P sequences in FAI.  This 
> is where the knife edge double I comes from (its not in the 
> Development guide).  Should we take that one out too?
>
> The knife edge flight with 1 ¼ in and out, the double key which was in 
> most of our prior versions, the eyecatcher we fly now is probably form 
> FAI (anyone form the last sequence committee can confirm or not)
>
> I am a member of the sequence committee and yes I have some issues 
> with the masters pattern as put out but like you I was only one vote 
> and this is the sequence that  the committee including 2 new members 
> came up with.
>
> I was asked if I would be on the committee, I agreed.  I wasn’t told 
> it would ruffle your feathers.  I as well as the other members put a 
> lot of work into the sequences, as I said before there was pretty much 
> full agreement on the other 2 sequences and I think they are quite good.
>
> And yes Tony this is aimed at you but I think some of your comments 
> are derogatory and uncalled for.
>
> Stuart
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
> Windows 10
>
> *From: *Frackowiak Tony <mailto:frackowiak at sbcglobal.net>
> *Sent: *Friday, July 7, 2017 9:34 PM
> *To: *Stuart Chale <mailto:schale1 at outlook.com>
> *Cc: *General pattern discussion 
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>; John Gayer 
> <mailto:jgghome at comcast.net>
> *Subject: *Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Masters Sequence
>
> Well, there's the problem. The Sequence Committee is supposed to be 
> creating patterns using the Sequence Development Guide, not the F3A 
> catalog. So it should be using K-Factors from the Guide.
>
> Tony Frackowiak
>
> On Jul 7, 2017, at 6:19 PM, Stuart Chale wrote:
>
>
>
>     Some of the K factors like the knife edge roll are taken from the
>     FAI catalog.
>
>     Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>     On Jul 7, 2017, at 8:38 PM, Frackowiak Tony via NSRCA-discussion
>     <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>     <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
>
>         Both of the cross box maneuvers have no options to stay in line.
>
>         Every Square Vertical 8 in the current Guide has a K of 5. Why
>         would this one be a 4?
>
>         Downwind KE Golf Ball is still a poor choice and should have a
>         K of 5.
>
>         The KE flight with 1 1/4 rolls without some definition of the
>         length of the KE will end up being two 1 1/4 rolls. Plus
>         simple KE flight in the current Guide is a K4. Why should this
>         be a K4 with the addition of two 1 1/4 rolls? Should be a 5.
>
>         Two rolls reversed in the Current Guide is a K4. The
>         elimination of the pause makes this a more difficult maneuver
>         yet it stays at K4? Should at least be a 5.
>
>         I'm sorry, but in my opinion this needs a fresh piece of paper
>         and start over. Start by making the composition of the
>         Sequence Committee according to the Charter.
>
>         Tony Frackowiak
>
>         On Jul 7, 2017, at 4:35 PM, John Gayer via NSRCA-discussion wrote:
>
>
>
>             Let's try this one.
>
>             	
>
>             Maneuver
>
>             	
>
>             KF
>
>             	
>
>             Exit
>
>             	
>             	
>
>             Change maneuver to:
>
>             	
>
>             New K
>
>             	
>
>             new exit
>
>             1
>
>             	
>
>             Takeoff
>
>             	
>
>             1
>
>             	
>
>             	
>
>             	
>
>             	
>
>             1
>
>             	
>
>             2
>
>             	
>
>             Double Immelman with Knife Edge Flight inside loop then
>             outside loop
>
>             	
>
>             5
>
>             	
>
>             Upright
>
>             	
>
>             U
>
>             	
>
>             Triangle Loop from top, 1/2 rolls on 45's, 1 1/2 snap on
>             top leg,
>
>             	
>
>             5
>
>             	
>
>             inverted
>
>             3
>
>             	
>
>             1/2 Loop with Integrated 1/2 Roll
>
>             	
>
>             3
>
>             	
>
>             Upright
>
>             	
>
>             TA
>
>             	
>
>             2 1/2 turn inverted spin
>
>             	
>
>             3
>
>             	
>
>             inverted
>
>             4
>
>             	
>
>             Triangle Loop from top, 1/2 rolls on 45's, 1 1/2 snap on
>             top leg
>
>             	
>
>             5
>
>             	
>
>             inverted
>
>             	
>
>             D
>
>             	
>
>             Double Immelman with Knife Edge Flight outside loop then
>             inside loop
>
>             	
>
>             5
>
>             	
>
>             upright
>
>             5
>
>             	
>
>             1/2 Square Loop with Snap Roll in down track
>
>             	
>
>             4
>
>             	
>
>             Upright
>
>             	
>
>             TA
>
>             	
>
>             Top Hat, 3 of 4 Roll up, 3/4 Roll down
>
>             	
>
>             2
>
>             	
>
>             inverted
>
>             6
>
>             	
>
>             Six-sided Loop, 2 of 4 Rolls in leg 2, two 1/4 Rolls
>             opposite in leg 4
>
>             	
>
>             4
>
>             	
>
>             inverted
>
>             	
>
>             U
>
>             	
>
>             Six-sided Loop, 2 of 4 Rolls in leg 2 and 4
>
>             	
>
>             4
>
>             	
>
>             inverted
>
>             7
>
>             	
>
>             Humpty Bump with Roll Options, 2 of 2 Roll up, Full Roll
>             down; or 3/4 Roll up and down
>
>             	
>
>             3
>
>             	
>
>             Upright
>
>             	
>
>             TA
>
>             	
>
>             Stall Turn with two 1/4 Rolls down
>
>             	
>
>             2
>
>             	
>
>             upright
>
>             8
>
>             	
>
>             Knife Edge Flight with 1 ¼ Roll in and out
>
>             	
>
>             4
>
>             	
>
>             inverted
>
>             	
>
>             D
>
>             	
>
>             Knife Edge Flight with 1 ¼ Roll in and out
>
>             	
>
>             4
>
>             	
>
>             upright
>
>             9
>
>             	
>
>             Stall Turn with two 1/4 Rolls opposite up, 1/2 Roll down
>
>             	
>
>             3
>
>             	
>
>             Upright
>
>             	
>
>             TA
>
>             	
>
>             Stall Turn with two 1/4 Rolls  up, 1/2 Roll down
>
>             	
>
>             3
>
>             	
>
>             upright
>
>             10
>
>             	
>
>             Vertical Cuban 8 with 1/2 Roll, Full Roll
>
>             	
>
>             4
>
>             	
>
>             Inverted
>
>             	
>
>             U
>
>             	
>
>             Vertical square 8 from bottom,  full roll at mid-level,
>             1/2 roll 2nd mid-level
>
>             	
>
>             4
>
>             	
>
>             inverted
>
>             11
>
>             	
>
>             Trombone with Roll
>
>             	
>
>             2
>
>             	
>
>             Upright
>
>             	
>
>             TA
>
>             	
>
>             reverse shark, snap on 45
>
>             	
>
>             4
>
>             	
>
>             upright
>
>             12
>
>             	
>
>             Golf Ball with 3/4 Rolls and Knife Edge Loop
>
>             	
>
>             4
>
>             	
>
>             Upright
>
>             	
>
>             D
>
>             	
>
>             Golf Ball with 1/4 Rolls and Knife Edge Loop
>
>             	
>
>             4
>
>             	
>
>             inverted
>
>             13
>
>             	
>
>             Top Hat, 3 of 4 Roll up, 3/4 Roll down
>
>             	
>
>             2
>
>             	
>
>             Upright
>
>             	
>
>             TA
>
>             	
>
>             Humpty Bump push top, 3/4 Roll up and down
>
>             	
>
>             2
>
>             	
>
>             upright
>
>             14
>
>             	
>
>             Figure Z with 4 of 8 Roll in 45
>
>             	
>
>             4
>
>             	
>
>             Inverted
>
>             	
>
>             U
>
>             	
>
>             	
>
>             4
>
>             	
>
>             15
>
>             	
>
>             Inverted 2-turn Spin
>
>             	
>
>             2
>
>             	
>
>             Upright
>
>             	
>
>             TA
>
>             	
>
>             1/2 square loop with full roll
>
>             	
>
>             2
>
>             	
>
>             upright
>
>             16
>
>             	
>
>             Two Slow Rolls opposite, no hesitation
>
>             	
>
>             4
>
>             	
>
>             Upright
>
>             	
>
>             D
>
>             	
>
>             	
>
>             4
>
>             	
>
>             17
>
>             	
>
>             Stall turn with half rolls up and down
>
>             	
>
>             2
>
>             	
>
>             Upright
>
>             	
>
>             TA
>
>             	
>
>             	
>
>             2
>
>             	
>
>             18
>
>             	
>
>             Loop with Integrated Roll in top 180
>
>             	
>
>             5
>
>             	
>
>             Upright
>
>             	
>
>             U
>
>             	
>
>             	
>
>             5
>
>             	
>
>             19
>
>             	
>
>             Landing
>
>             	
>
>             1
>
>             	
>
>             	
>
>             	
>
>             	
>
>             1
>
>             	
>
>             	
>
>             	
>
>             	
>
>             	
>
>             	
>
>             	
>
>             	
>
>             	
>
>             Total K-factor
>
>             	
>
>             62
>
>             	
>
>             	
>
>             	
>
>             	
>
>             61
>
>             	
>
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>
>         _______________________________________________
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