[NSRCA-discussion] New Masters Sequence

Fri Jul 7 18:34:48 AKDT 2017

Stuart,

Sorry you take my comments as derogatory. I have only been stating my opinions, and in some cases, the facts of the situation. Of course, new maneuvers should be added to the Guide. There are processes to do just that and we did so when I was on the Committee. But the current proposal has 14 out of the 19 maneuvers not currently in the Guide. That seems very high. 

I have stated the Intermediate and Advanced Sequences seem fine. I admit though that I have not studied them closely yet. One comment I will make on Intermediate is I don't know why when you have a triangle loop you then need a square loop on corner. Why not just a square loop? But that's a small issue.

I stand by my statement that the SDG is supposed to be the primary document to develop proposals. If a new F3A maneuver is used, the K for it should follow the guide as much as possible. 

Nothing personal here Stuart but I'm sorry you have taken it that way. 

BTW, I hated using the eyecatcher, but I was just one vote.

Tony Frackowiak

On Jul 7, 2017, at 7:18 PM, Stuart Chale wrote:

> And I thought I was the sarcastic one!
>  
> Maneuvers are and have been pulled from the P sequences in FAI.  This is where the knife edge double I comes from (its not in the Development guide).  Should we take that one out too? 
> The knife edge flight with 1 ¼ in and out, the double key which was in most of our prior versions, the eyecatcher we fly now is probably form FAI (anyone form the last sequence committee can confirm or not)
>  
> I am a member of the sequence committee and yes I have some issues with the masters pattern as put out but like you I was only one vote and this is the sequence that  the committee including 2 new members came up with. 
> I was asked if I would be on the committee, I agreed  I wasn’t told it would ruffle your feathers.  I as well as the other members put a lot of work into the sequences, as I said before there was pretty much full agreement on the other 2 sequences and I think they are quite good.
>  
> And yes Tony this is aimed at you but I think some of your comments are derogatory and uncalled for.
>  
> Stuart
>  
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Frackowiak Tony
> Sent: Friday, July 7, 2017 9:34 PM
> To: Stuart Chale
> Cc: General pattern discussion; John Gayer
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Masters Sequence
>  
> Well, there's the problem. The Sequence Committee is supposed to be creating patterns using the Sequence Development Guide, not the F3A catalog. So it should be using K-Factors from the Guide.
>  
> Tony Frackowiak
>  
> On Jul 7, 2017, at 6:19 PM, Stuart Chale wrote:
> 
> 
> Some of the K factors like the knife edge roll are taken from the FAI catalog.  
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 7, 2017, at 8:38 PM, Frackowiak Tony via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
> 
> Both of the cross box maneuvers have no options to stay in line. 
>  
> Every Square Vertical 8 in the current Guide has a K of 5. Why would this one be a 4? 
>  
> Downwind KE Golf Ball is still a poor choice and should have a K of 5. 
>  
> The KE flight with 1 1/4 rolls without some definition of the length of the KE will end up being two 1 1/4 rolls. Plus simple KE flight in the current Guide is a K4. Why should this be a K4 with the addition of two 1 1/4 rolls? Should be a 5.
>  
> Two rolls reversed in the Current Guide is a K4. The elimination of the pause makes this a more difficult maneuver yet it stays at K4? Should at least be a 5.
>  
> I'm sorry, but in my opinion this needs a fresh piece of paper and start over. Start by making the composition of the Sequence Committee according to the Charter.
>  
> Tony Frackowiak
>  
> On Jul 7, 2017, at 4:35 PM, John Gayer via NSRCA-discussion wrote:
> 
> 
> Let's try this one.
> 
> 
>  
> Maneuver
> KF
> Exit
> Change maneuver to:
> New K
> new exit
> 1
> Takeoff
> 1
>  
>  
>  
> 1
>  
> 2
> Double Immelman with Knife Edge Flight inside loop then outside loop
> 5
> Upright
> U
> Triangle Loop from top, 1/2 rolls on 45's, 1 1/2 snap on top leg,
> 5
> inverted
> 3
> 1/2 Loop with Integrated 1/2 Roll
> 3
> Upright
> TA
> 2 1/2 turn inverted spin
> 3
> inverted
> 4
> Triangle Loop from top, 1/2 rolls on 45's, 1 1/2 snap on top leg
> 5
> inverted
> D
> Double Immelman with Knife Edge Flight outside loop then inside loop
> 5
> upright
> 5
> 1/2 Square Loop with Snap Roll in down track
> 4
> Upright
> TA
> Top Hat, 3 of 4 Roll up, 3/4 Roll down
> 2
> inverted
> 6
> Six-sided Loop, 2 of 4 Rolls in leg 2, two 1/4 Rolls opposite in leg 4
> 4
> inverted
> U
> Six-sided Loop, 2 of 4 Rolls in leg 2 and 4
> 4
> inverted
> 7
> Humpty Bump with Roll Options, 2 of 2 Roll up, Full Roll down; or 3/4 Roll up and down
> 3
> Upright
> TA
> Stall Turn with two 1/4 Rolls down
> 2
> upright
> 8
> Knife Edge Flight with 1 ¼ Roll in and out
> 4
> inverted
> D
> Knife Edge Flight with 1 ¼ Roll in and out
> 4
> upright
> 9
> Stall Turn with two 1/4 Rolls opposite up, 1/2 Roll down
> 3
> Upright
> TA
> Stall Turn with two 1/4 Rolls  up, 1/2 Roll down
> 3
> upright
> 10
> Vertical Cuban 8 with 1/2 Roll, Full Roll
> 4
> Inverted
> U
> Vertical square 8 from bottom,  full roll at mid-level, 1/2 roll 2nd mid-level
> 4
> inverted
> 11
> Trombone with Roll
> 2
> Upright
> TA
> reverse shark, snap on 45
> 4
> upright
> 12
> Golf Ball with 3/4 Rolls and Knife Edge Loop
> 4
> Upright
> D
> Golf Ball with 1/4 Rolls and Knife Edge Loop
> 4
> inverted
> 13
> Top Hat, 3 of 4 Roll up, 3/4 Roll down
> 2
> Upright
> TA
> Humpty Bump push top, 3/4 Roll up and down
> 2
> upright
> 14
> Figure Z with 4 of 8 Roll in 45
> 4
> Inverted
> U
>  
> 4
>  
> 15
> Inverted 2-turn Spin
> 2
> Upright
> TA
> 1/2 square loop with full roll
> 2
> upright
> 16
> Two Slow Rolls opposite, no hesitation
> 4
> Upright
> D
>  
> 4
>  
> 17
> Stall turn with half rolls up and down
> 2
> Upright
> TA
>  
> 2
>  
> 18
> Loop with Integrated Roll in top 180
> 5
> Upright
> U
>  
> 5
>  
> 19
> Landing
> 1
>  
>  
>  
> 1
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> Total K-factor
> 62
>  
>  
>  
> 61
>  
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>  
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>  
>  

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20170708/2f4ff426/attachment.html>