[NSRCA-discussion] Competition

[Atwood, Mark]

This is a bit tongue in cheek reply, but I think there’s merit…

If difficulty were truly the issue… wouldn’t Control Line stunt still be thriving, since they haven’t changed their sequence…ever?

There is no one issue.    First of all, part of our issue is that our memory sucks.  Yes, things were better “back in the day” but contests in the 90’s had 30… sometimes 40 guys, with the rare exception of a few big events like the mint julep or tangerine.  Yes, those big events are no more.   And the general turnout of a well attended contest has slipped from 35-40 to 25.

No question our numbers are down.  No question we need to work at it.

One issue we don’t discuss??  Prestige.  It’s no longer there.   The rock stars of RC modeling use to all be pattern guys.  You went to Toledo and the 10 sponsored pilots working the Futaba booth were ALL pattern guys.  Ivan, Von Linsowe, Cunningham, etc etc etc.   Same for the JR booth, etc.   Now?  You’re hard pressed to find one (happy to represent, but that’s not the point).   It’s heli, 3D, Freestyle guys.  That’s who has the prestige.  That’s who the new flyer “wants to be”.  We lost that.   No TOC, and all sorts of new competition.     XFC, Clover Creek, Tuscon Shootout…   Sure, there’s a few pattern guys in the mix… but for the most part, the known “Rock stars” no longer fly pattern.

One thing that has worked for me locally to attract some participation is being able to demonstrate that playing pattern will improve their 3D freestyle.  And in one case… we have a full convert (he won the nats in intermediate this year).


MARK ATWOOD
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e.  atwoodm at paragon-inc.com<mailto:atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>

Paragon Consulting, Inc.
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On Sep 20, 2016, at 12:43 PM, David Harmon via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:

That’s correct John….but back then there were….let’s say….60 entrants to almost every contest.
These days with electric power….noise is no longer a concern.
I think our problem is to a large extent….the difficulty of flying Pattern.
Let’s face it guys….flying Pattern is DIFFICULT.
It takes dedication….you cannot just buy your way into the event with hardware and be successful.

Years ago….there were no ARF’s…..a Pattern style airplane had to be built…..then you had to learn to fly it…if you could get the engine to run.
This was difficult to say the least…..but the Patterns were much easier than today.
Today the situation is totally reversed.
E-power is like a light switch…..it runs perfect every time and when you shut it off there is no maintenance.
There are no Pattern kits that I know of…..so most of us fly ARF airplanes that are better than most guys can build.
Today the emphasis is on flying…..not messing around with the hardware.

This is where the modern day  ‘difficult’ part comes in.
Pattern maneuvers are just too damn difficult for new entrants to make the jump to the event….even if they already sport fly….attracting non-modelers is a non-starter.
This is the main reason that in my opinion…..the NSRCA should make all AMA classes non-turnaround or at least classes lower than Masters.
Pattern has to be made ‘do-able’ for existing flyers…..
We need to show these sport flyers that they can actually fly the maneuvers the first time out and that they can quickly build skill and take home some wood.
That will let many flyers become encouraged enough to get started and stay engaged and perhaps become skilled enough to howl with the big dawgs in FAI.

For the guys that want to have a continuous challenge to their skills….let them fly FAI….that should keep them busy for a while.

We cannot just keep on doing the same old same old…….
Something….anything….needs to be tried to get new entrants and retain existing pilots.


David Harmon
Sperry, OK

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 10:02 AM
To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Competition

I always thought the reason why we went to turnaround Pattern in the first place was to reduce our “footprint” and to minimize noise. This was back when we had 60’s and tuned pipes (the good old days) Now that the average Pattern plane makes less noise than a freaking butterfly I guess it could become an option (no turnarounds) but I don’t think that’s necessary.

One thing that we tried in D1 was to have an informal / loosely judged competition with small electric planes. We opened this to ANYONE although I don’t think any nn Pattern pilots ever entered. It was fun but we stopped doing it.

See the REAL “problem” is that, as you said, we’re losing people faster than we’re attracting new ones. Just retaining people is good and certainly necessary but it just stops the bleeding. You DO need to get new people interested but as I’ve said that’s about 1 out of every 10 that has just learned to fly. ☹

John Pavlick
Cell: 203-417-4971

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Integrated Development Services

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of David Harmon via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 2:38 AM
To: 'Scott McHarg'; 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Competition

Even if we are recognized……the interested person is likely going to be a modeler who already is aware of Pattern.
I don’t think any assets or time should be wasted in trying to get non-modelers-flyers interested in Pattern.
As others have said…it’s booooring…like watching paint dry.
There are plenty of modelers who already know how to fly but are never going to try Pattern.

In the past….retaining flyers is a larger problem than attracting new flyers.
Over the years the entry count dwindled to what it is now….extremely low.

Why???

There are a lot of reasons but in my opinion….the most prominent are…..
Turnaround style of maneuvers.
Ever increasing difficulty of maneuvers.
Some clubs resistance to an event that locks up the field for 2 days……or even 1 day….for a crummy $50 or so donation to the club from entry fee residue.
As others have repeatedly said…..expense. I really don’t buy this because Pattern has ALWAYS been expensive…this is nothing new.
If a club flyer is interested enough to try Pattern….he will find a way to justify the expense.
The same flyers always win, place or show.
After years of trying…many flyers drop out because they know they do not have a chance of taking home any wood….yes, I know, practice more….true to a point.
Judging…..well…..we all know about this subject….but I know this causes many flyers to drop out.

All of this is nothing new….it has been hashed over hundreds of times….but as Scott said….nothing keeps on happening.
I think that the NSRCA should try something radically new….like change all classes below Masters to non-Turnaround maneuvers.
Fly what you bring….up to 30 lbs.
Remove all integrated maneuvers from Masters class.
Have radically fewer contests in an effort to get the entrant count much higher at each contest as a way to help club members justify a non-flying weekend.
Hopefully a large crowd will attract club members to Pattern……6 guys flying for two days ain’t gonna attract anything but hard feelings from club members who just want to fly their stick.
If changes similar to the above could be tried….perhaps club members should be allowed to sport fly along with the contestants.
This at the least would remove the club members ‘lost weekend’ and perhaps change the attitude of some clubs.


David Harmon
Sperry, OK

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 4:14 PM
To: Atwood, Mark <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com<mailto:atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>>; General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Competition

The original reason I posted this is because we need to really "do something" to actually get people to recognize us.  DRL got ESPN and, while there is an obvious attraction to this by young and old, they started from something and somewhere.  Do we need ESPN?  While nice, the answer is no.  I wanted to show all of us that this is what is attracting potential pilots and, for that matter, getting the notoriety.  The discussion is usually "why is this happening" instead of what can we do to "Be like Mike" (in this case) and then actually acting on those ideas.  There have been some pretty good ones in this thread.  Maybe it's time we acted.  Let's not leave it up to someone else to do the acting, each one of us can make a difference in our own way and through our own contacts.

Scott A. McHarg
VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
Texas A&M University
PPL - ASEL
Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107
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