[NSRCA-discussion] Lipo fire

Mon Jun 13 11:07:57 AKDT 2016

Ceramic, like the flower pot idea or something similar, seems to be the way to go to contain the heat.

If anyone is interested,
My sister is a potter and owns an art studio, she can make virtually anything any size or shape out of clay and fire it in house in one of 4 kilns at a thousand something degrees. if anyone has a good design they like I am sure she would be glad to put something together, for a fee of course, (guaranteed to be less than the price of a van or 4 bedroom colonial in the suburbs) that would contain the heat and make Lipo storage safer.

She made me a 3x3 storage chest with a top and even decorated it. It's heavy and cumbersome but will contain any heat a lipo can put out. I don't move it, I just store my batteries in it. We talked about a smaller portable one with a handle but I never commissioned it because I charge   (when/if I fly) out in the open and don't need anything else to carry. 

Like Mark said, Lipos everywhere in multiple states of charge and discharge. I hate that the only think keeping me from waking up to the smell of burning garage is dumb luck.
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 6/13/16, Mike Murphy via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lipo fire
 To: "Mark Atwood" <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>, "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>, "Shulman Jason" <justanotherflyr at gmail.com>
 Date: Monday, June 13, 2016, 2:37 PM

  _filtered
 #yiv8199251789 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4
 3 2 4;}Mark,

 I treat my batteries the same as you,for the same reasons.
 And I also am a bit nervous. 
 Mike Murphy

 On June 13, 2016, at 2:09
 PM, "Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion"
 <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

 So playing a little devil’s
 advocate here.

 I hear a lot of talk about “not storing them inside” or
 “discharging any charged packs that don’t get used”
 and a lot of other prudent sounding advice, HOWEVER… None
 of it seems practical or even remotely in line with
 ANYBODY’s habits that I’m aware of.

 I fly a few times a week.  My
 batteries are charged, virtually ALL the time.  Right now I
 have 9 10s5000 flight packs fully charged sitting on the
 garage floor in hopes that I’ll get out of work in time to
 put up a few flights tonight.  If I do…
  I’ll come home and charge them so they’re ready on the
 chance I get to fly tomorrow.    

 50% of the time,.. the charged
 packs are sitting in my van all day…so that I can go
 straight to the field from the office.   During contests,
 the packs also sit in the van over night, charged and ready
 to go the next day.  

 Yes, I discharge in the fall when
 the weather starts to turn.  Yes, I never charge unattended
 (or at least modestly attended).  But I have a litany of
 small batteries, Rx packs and foamy packs that are in
 disarray in various flight boxes and various
  states of charge.  Bad habit?  Probably.

 My point is that keeping these
 out of the house, or in a state of discharge isn’t
 logistically realistic for the active flyer.  Maybe
 that’s a stupid statement.   But I’d really like to
 discuss practical approaches to staying safer.    And old
  packs??  Probably the most dangerous?  I have MANY.  I
 destroy  the truly old, but there’s a grey area where
 they’re not too old to discard, but they’re in the
 “I’ll only use them if I have to” stage of life.

 I sort of like the idea of a
 Cinder block “cage” I could erect on the concrete floor
 of my basement.  It wouldn’t help the smoke, but might
 contain the actual fire should a pack decide to ignite just
 sitting around.     I’ve seen these packs “scoot”
  across a paved surface when they go off, so isolation is
 only good if they’re physically contained.  

 Treating them like gasoline or
 black powder isn’t really analogous since neither is
 particularly volatile if left alone.   A Jim stated… it
 would be good to understand better what caused Roberts pack
 to decide to become a road flare.    

 My somewhat nervous $0.02

 -Mark 

 MARK ATWOOD

 o.  (440)
 229-2502 
 c.  (216)
 316-2489 
 e.  atwoodm at paragon-inc.com

 Paragon Consulting,
 Inc. 
 5900
 Landerbrook Drive, Suite
 205, Cleveland Ohio, 44124 
 www.paragon-inc.com

 Powering The Digital
 Experience

 On Jun 13, 2016, at 1:47 PM, Jas
 via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
 wrote:

 Having seen the intense flames these batteries can produce,
 I'm not sure how the ammo boxes I've seen guys
 around here can withstand it if all the batteries went up
 one after another.

 One thing I've always thought about is flower pots.
 They're fire treated so I can only assume that the flame
 wouldn't bother the pot any. Maybe?

 Jas iP

 On Jun 13, 2016, at 1:29 PM, David Harmon via
 NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
 wrote:

 Man….that’s a close call
 Robert. 

 Glad to hear that your wife
 handled this situation so well. 

 I use a 50 cal metal ammo box
 too….I used a 5/8” Greenlee chassis punch to make a hole
 on the back panel for a pressure relief. 

 Hopefully the hole is large
 enough to relieve the pressure but still contain most of the
 flame. 

 Also….if I have any fully
 charged batteries after flying I discharge them to 50%
 (storage charge)…especially if I know they will not be
 used for awhile. 

 I use a 17 ohm 100W Dale power
 resistor, a short lead with the correct connector on it to
 discharge a 10S battery (connected to the main discharge
 battery lead) 

 This gives a 2.5A constant
 discharge rate which makes 100W of heat. 

 The resistor can handle that
 much heat but I put a small fan on it anyway. 

 I discharge them down to about
 40% then put on the charger to bring back up to the storage
 charge. 

 This also balances the cells
 and makes the situation a bit more safe…..at least if one
 of them blows the energy is about half. 

 David Harmon 

 Sperry, OK 

 From: NSRCA-discussion
 [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On
  Behalf Of Robert
 Green via NSRCA-discussion

 Sent: Monday,
 June 13, 2016 10:15 AM

 To: 'General
 pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>

 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion]
 Lipo fire 

 Hey guys wanted to let you know
 about an incident I had over the weekend that caused some
 high concern.  I flew four flights yesterday, then returned
 home.  I thought I would
  go back out later and fly three more, so I charged three
 more batteries.  The three batteries on was planning on
 using, were flown the previous day, and were not overly
 discharged.  I took my kids to the movies as my wife did
 not want to go, and that turned
  out to be the best thing for the family.  One of my 2014
 packs decided that it no longer wanted to live and decided
 to catch fire all by itself.  I have always thought that
 the best time for these to catch fire, would be during the
 charge cycle.  This incident
  happened almost an hour after charging the pack.  Keep in
 mind that after I charged the pack, there were immediately
 put into my flight box for storage until I got back from the
 movies.  After I took them off the charger, the batteries
 did not see warm in
  any way, cool to the touch.  I have had these batteries
 for two and as far as I can remember - they where not
 damaged in any way.  Due to my wifes' heroic action,
 the house did not catch on fire like my toolbox did.  She
 brought them out to the drive way water
  on them to kill the flames.  I have been pretty cavalier
 with packs, leaving them out once they are charged and not
 putting them in something safe for storage....those days are
 done.  If this can happen to a battery sitting with a
 stored charge, I will not
  longer leave my house or family unprotected.  

 I bought a safe yesterday, but
 apparently that may not be the best thing for them either as
 the battery give off a gas and they need to breathe.  In
 other words if you left
  them in a safe you may be creating a bomb scenario.  What
 I did was - several years ago, I bought a metal ammo case. 
 I removed 3/4 of the rubber around the case allowing for the
 exchange of air to occur. 

 If any one has any other creative
 ideas on how they store there lipos, please contribute to
 this thread as I think it is important as a community that
 we spread the message
  that this technology which has been proven to be safe for
 the most part also can be dangerous. 

 thanks, 

 Robert 

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