[NSRCA-discussion] Arming plug and Failsafe +

Mon May 18 16:18:30 AKDT 2015

Phil, but all of us have moments of foolishness at one time or another.  :)

On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:16 PM, Phil Spelt via NSRCA-discussion <
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

> I agree, Ed.  The reason they can't mnake anything foolproof is that there
> are SO &%$^ MANY fools!!!
>
>
>
>
>
> *Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, SecretaryAMA 1294, Scientific Leader MemberSPA
> L-18, Board Member(865) 435-1476v  (865) 604-0541c*
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *To: *"Keith Hoard" <klhoard at hotmail.com>, "General pattern discussion" <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Sent: *Monday, May 18, 2015 1:01:46 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming plug and Failsafe +
>
> Yep.  Trying to fix Human nature is not an easy thing.  Education to the
> dangers may do more than yet another rule that can be overlooked.
>
>
>
> On May 18, 2015, at 12:58 PM, Keith Hoard via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>  So what happens when you don't have the Arming Plug Police on scene?
>
> I submit that the same guy that leaves his batteries connected in his
> plane in the pits won't remove the arming plug either.
>
>
> -Keith Hoard
> -Sent from my Windows Phone
>  ------------------------------
> From: Peter Vogel via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: ‎5/‎18/‎2015 11:48
> To: Vicente Bortone <vincebrc at gmail.com>; General pattern discussion
> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming plug and Failsafe +
>
>  I'm a bit of a history buff.  All this discussion is reminiscent of the
> heated discussions that occurred in the newspapers of the day when, first
> Britain, and later the United States, imposed rules on how one drives a car
> on the motorways of the day.  People complained bitterly at being "confined
> to the side" of roads (left or right) and being "constrained to a speed
> little more than walking speed" (which, was, in fact, the constraint in the
> early 1800's when cars were steam powered).  When signage, and, later,
> traffic lights appeared in the early 20th century, the uproar was quite
> similar.  Everyone had an argument why "their" driving process was
> absolutely accident proof and if everyone just followed their brilliant
> safety system there would be no need for such ridiculous and outrageous
> "regulation" and "government intrusion" into their preferred activities.
>
>  The proposed rule makes no requirement for an arming plug, but it does
> require:
>
>   "the electric power circuit(s) must not be physically connected, before
> the starting time is begun or the aircraft is preparing to be taken out to
> the runway for the flight and must be physically disconnected immediately
> after removal of the aircraft from the landing area."
>
>  Personally, given the hassle of canopy removal and replacement,
> particularly just prior to flight, I will use an arming plug as I have
> since I got into this sport.  Even my first electric helicopter (which is
> how I got back into RC after a 15 year hiatus) had an arming plug, even
> with the added safety of a throttle hold switch on the TX.  It was cheap
> and easy insurance to be certain I never had a situation where I'd
> unexpectedly encounter a 290mph blade tip speed...
>
> I've been at a *lot* of contests where people from the anti-arming plug
> camp have lost their canopies in flight.  Hmm.  Maybe the task loading of
> preparing the fly a round, telling your caller where you want the plane
> positioned on the runway, AND removing your canopy to plug your batteries
> in and then replacing the canopy is too much?  Or maybe relying on a caller
> to know exactly how your canopy needs to be secured is expecting too much
> of them?  I trust anyone on the flight line to take my plane out and plug
> in the deans arming plug securely and remove it before they roll my plane
> into the pits...
>
> Peter+
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Vicente Bortone via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>  Jason,
>
> The most important part of your experience is that you were able to see
> that the arming plug was still in place. At least you have chance to ask if
> plane was armed and question the pilot. I got a real experience that I
> would like to share. We were only three pilots at the field. One of them
> put his plane in the pits. The other pilot and me were next to him. Few
> minutes later the owner went to get something and walk away from the plane.
> After he left, his plane took off in flying over the pits and flew away
> crashing in the middle of the runway. We were lucky that nobody was hit and
> were were only three pilots. I was a real wake up experience since we never
> were aware that the plane was armed.  We never found what was the real
> cause of the problem since the plane was destroyed. For sure the owner left
> the plane armed and didn't have the arming plug. The radio was off as far
> as I know but never really have a chance to confirm this.  After the scare,
> I had a chance to talk and recomend to add an arming plug.  The plane
> owner went ahead and added arming plugs to all his planes and he was glad
> to know that there is a way to potentially avoid this type of incident
> again.  It is clear that the arming plug won't fix anything if pilots
> leaves the arming plug in place but give the oportunity to fellow pilots to
> warm him of a potential problem.  I just read John Ford's e-mail.  He makes
> the point more clearly than me but I think this is one real life
> example that confirms what he just said.
>
>  Thanks,
>
>  Vicente "Vince" Bortone
>
>
>
>
>  On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 7:36 PM wayg2013 via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>  Hmmm arming plug.... My 1911 'll plug about anything... Now thats what I
> call being armed...hee hee
>
>
>  Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S® 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Larry Diamond via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>
> Date:05/17/2015 5:31 PM (GMT-06:00)
> To: Jas <justanotherflyr at gmail.com>, General pattern discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming plug and Failsafe +
>
> Looks like the arming plug debate has surpassed the snap debate.... Gotta
> love progress.
>
>
>
>  Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S®4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Jas via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Date: 05/17/2015 3:19 PM (GMT-06:00)
> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming plug and Failsafe +
>
> Random thoughts about all this.
>
> I've watched a pilot forget to turn off his plane (and subsequently not
> having pulled his arming plug) and idle up while near the pits (he happened
> to have a hold of it still). It surprised him when it did it. It was during
> practice here and we normally taxi up the taxi way to the no taxi line, so
> its not a 'normal' contest type situation. Point: arming plug did nothing
> in this case.
>
> I personally feel that fail safe and an external on-off Rx switch is
> 'safer' (when fail safe is set correctly) and should be mandatory. If the
> fail safe is set correct then even if the Tx is turned off the motor won't
> turn on. If there is an external Rx switch and it gets turned off then (in
> theory and so far in all my years flying E) the motor doesn't run after
> it's off. I've always asked Dave (or whoever gets my plane) to turn off the
> Rx BEFORE picking my plane up from the runway. Haven't had one start back
> up when done this way. But once back to me, I pull the canopy and disarm it
> before it goes anywhere else.
>
> For the way that I do things, I don't see an advantage of a safety plug on
> my personal planes. I've been flying electric pattern since '03, so my
> habits (Rx power off once landed) are just normal for me. I can certainly
> see where some would benefit from an external plug (screws holding on
> canopy, battery connection not easy to get to and newcomers to electric),
> but I think there is just a different issue...
>
> Maybe as pilots we just need to be more self-aware and responsible?
>
> Sent from my iP
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>
>
>  --
>  Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
> Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
>
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