[NSRCA-discussion] Arming device
John Gayer
jgghome at comcast.net
Mon May 18 00:22:50 AKDT 2015
Turning off the transmitter before disarming/disconnecting the motor
batteries is usually the result of a brain fart, not lack of knowledge
about the order of turning equipment on and off. The only cure is to
properly set up the failsafe.
John
On 5/17/2015 1:11 PM, David Harmon via NSRCA-discussion wrote:
>
> Nice sequence of events there John.
>
> The whole thing could have been prevented if the pilot had been paying
> attention to his radio setup and if contest management had checked
> each airplane’s throttle setup before the first round.
>
> Yeah, yeah…..he should have pulled the arming plug before he shut off
> the transmitter.
>
> Doesn’t everyone know that the transmitter is the first thing to turn
> on and the last thing to turn off?
>
> Or do they??
>
> Apparently not!
>
> Someone said that there is a surprising number of pilots that do not
> understand or are unaware of detailed radio setup.
>
> Most will not read the manual…..some excuse here though as radio
> manuals leave a lot to be desired.
>
> In the past couple of years I have personally witnessed a couple of
> really stupid and inept setups by names that would amaze you all.
>
> **
>
> *David Harmon*
>
> *Sperry, OK*
>
> *From:*NSRCA-discussion
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of *John
> Fuqua via NSRCA-discussion
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 17, 2015 1:57 PM
> *To:* 'General pattern discussion'
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming device
>
> I just gotta respond to this “non-existent” problem. I was the
> recipient of a non-existent problem when a buddy’s plane plowed
> through my plane I the pits. A young man in the pits started to
> grab the plane and decided, fortunately, not to do so. What caused
> this? There was 3 specific issues. A - The fail safe was not
> set properly and the Tx was turned off causing the motor to rev up.
> B - There was no external arming plug to pull immediately after the
> plane landed thereby disconnecting the power source and preventing A;
> and C, we as a group, did not ensure positive control of the airplane
> from the runway to the pit area. All things that our pattern group
> enforces now.
>
> The expectation is that we can come up with a solution that does not
> drive a specific hardware solution BUT will prevent things like
> described above.
>
> John
>
> *From:*NSRCA-discussion
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of
> *Whodaddy Whodaddy via NSRCA-discussion
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 17, 2015 1:14 PM
> *To:* Vicente Bortone; General pattern discussion
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming device
>
> Im about halfway out of pattern as it stands now.. Over intergrated
> rolling maneuvers in masters .. Different debate all together though
> .... But it stands next to this issue .. Apparently We cant jus go
> fly our airplanes we ( pattern community ) have to medfle and improve
> on things until
>
> We have to invent and drive a non existent problem to the for front
> and cure an issue that doesn't exist ...
>
> Jesus christ!!!!!!
>
> Gary
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On May 17, 2015, at 12:47 PM, Vicente Bortone via NSRCA-discussion
> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
>
> I know a good friend local that got very bad cuts in his legs by
> leaving his helicopter armed unattended. I forgot now how many
> stitches but were a lot. We got two now. We don't want more.
>
> On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 12:42 PM Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion
> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
>
> Rest in peace *Roman Pirozek Jr,*
>
> On Sunday, May 17, 2015, Keith Hoard via NSRCA-discussion
> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
>
> Y'all don't hang around helicopter fly-ins much, do ya?
>
> -Keith Hoard
> -Sent from my Windows Phone
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From: *Ronald Van Putte via NSRCA-discussion
> *Sent: *5/17/2015 12:08
> *To: *General pattern discussion
> *Subject: *Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming device
>
> Yeah! Even if we are capable of causing carnage with our unsafe
> airplane, it’s nobody else’s business. Don’t mess with my airplane!
>
> Ron (with tongue in cheek)
>
> On May 17, 2015, at 11:30 AM, Keith Hoard via NSRCA-discussion
> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
>
> Pattern is turning into a box checking, over-regulated
> government operation.
>
> -Keith Hoard
> -Sent from my Windows Phone
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From: *Vicente Bortone via NSRCA-discussion
> *Sent: *5/17/2015 9:04
> *To: *David Harmon; General pattern discussion
> *Subject: *[NSRCA-discussion] Arming device
>
> TAG IN.....
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> I started to do that in my contest in Kansas City last year.
> This year in pilot meeting I said. " If you don't do it the
> first round will be zeroed. Well I think worked well"
>
> John F.
>
> You just made my day. I do more or less the same you do. I
> review a lot of projects. Clearly will all here analyzed the
> system and we know the steps could be used to mitigate a
> possible situation. That is the end of discussion in cases
> like this. Just give me a real possibility of tag in and tag out.
>
> Jon,
>
> Good research. Now you have to find what is the code that
> applies to model airplanes. I knew that there is no one
> specific code. However existing codes applies for similar
> systems. If all if them arrives to the same conclusion we will
> be in better shape if we just follow the intent of all codes
> you can find. Now try to find the specifics for a system
> similar to the one we have. I already know the answer so I
> don't need to ask our friend Google.
>
> TAG OUT
>
>
>
> On Saturday, May 16, 2015, David Harmon via NSRCA-discussion
> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
>
> With as much talk that has gone on and on
> andonandonandonandon about this
> arming device......puff..puff....not much percentage.
> Especially when it is so easy to check.....
> Before the first takeoff of each pilot on the first
> round....the helper
> holds the plane off the ground and the pilot turns off the
> transmitter.
> The judges can verify that the motor does not start.
> Easy....no drama.
>
> Oh wait....this was never done with glow....but I HAVE
> seen several guys
> chawed up by a howling YS.
> One time a guys airplane chased him in a circle as he was
> trying to catch
> it...he had one leg in front of one wing and for an old
> guy he moved pretty
> quick.
> I can't describe how long I laughed about that incident.
>
> In the end....my opinion is checking the fail-safe
> function should be a must
> at each contest.
>
> David Harmon
> Sperry, OK
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: NSRCA-discussion
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On
>
> Behalf Of Ron Van Putte via NSRCA-discussion
> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 4:58 PM
>
>
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming device
>
> I have seen too many situations where an ID10T error
> caused serious damage
> that would have been precluded by the use of a shorting plug.
>
> What percentage of pilots’ transmitters would fail the
> fail safe test?
> Anybody?
>
> Ron Van Putte
>
> On May 16, 2015, at 4:08 PM, Whodaddy Whodaddy via
> NSRCA-discussion
> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
>
> > Seems like we have to many people with to much time on
> their hands sitting
> around fantasizing about what might happen if ....
> Really.... if u cant
> control the aircraft in all aspects then u prolly
> shouldn't have one... Let
> alone legislate what i need to be doing with mine...
> >
> >
> > Gary
> >
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
>
> >> On May 16, 2015, at 3:58 PM, Jon Lowe via NSRCA-discussion
>
> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Code doesn't apply to model airplanes. Cars do not
> disconnect the
> battery, except on race cars with a disconnect switch in
> case of a wreck.
> Normal road cars do not, and modern cars leave a lot of
> things connected
> when the ignition is off. A lot of cars have underhood
> fans that run for
> awhile after the car is shut off.
> >>
> >> If this was a big issue, AMA would address it with all
> model aircraft,
> not just pattern. Electric is common in helis, controline,
> etc. We are over
> killing this something awful.
> >>
> >> Jon
> >>
> >>> On May 16, 2015 2:11 PM, Vicente Bortone via
> NSRCA-discussion
> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> the ignition switch.
> >>>
> >>>> On Saturday, May 16, 2015, Vicente Bortone
> <vincebrc at gmail.com <mailto:vincebrc at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Saturday, May 16, 2015, Del R via NSRCA-discussion
> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The nice thing about being brought up around GUNS..
> It teaches
> >>>>> people to respect it always as though it is loaded
> and cocked
> >>>>> ready to deliver its physical life altering
> energy!!!.. < tic >
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: David Cook via NSRCA-discussion
> >>>>>> To: Jim Woodward ; General pattern discussion
> >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 10:48 AM
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming device
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Just to open the can of worms from the other end.
> >>>>>> Now that I have seen the damage a runaway can do to
> a pool table even
> with an external arming device, I have begun to make it a
> common practice to
> remove the prop from the electric planes any time I am not
> at the field
> flying. Store the ammunition and the pin under two
> different locks. How easy
> is it to be careless in the shop or transporting a plane.
> This thread could
> just explode with stories of mishaps we have made or come
> way too close to.
> >>>>>> You just can't be too carful with these things!!!
> >>>>>> DC
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Jim Woodward via
> NSRCA-discussion
> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ... Going electric induces a mental physchosis
> that requires
> >>>>>>> everyone else to switch, then go and change the
> rules for glow
> >>>>>>> :)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On May 16, 2015, at 9:38 AM, Keith Hoard via
> NSRCA-discussion
> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I think the YS guys should have their caller
> remove the fuel tank
> and glow plug before picking up the plane and exiting the
> runway . . .
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> From: NSRCA-discussion
> >>>>>>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
> On Behalf Of
> >>>>>>>> precisionaero via NSRCA-discussion
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 8:38 AM
> >>>>>>>> To: General pattern discussion
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming device
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I think we should reconfigure a YS engine to
> drive a generator to
> supply electricity to the electric motor.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT&T 4G
> LTE smartphone
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -------- Original message --------
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> From: Peter Vogel via NSRCA-discussion
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Date:05/16/2015 09:31 (GMT-05:00)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> To: General pattern discussion ,
> ronlock at comcast.net <mailto:ronlock at comcast.net>, David
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming device
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I think we're all in agreement, which is why the
> rules proposal we
> put forth requires a *physical* break in the circuit!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Sent from Outlook
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 6:16 AM -0700,
> "ronlock--- via
> NSRCA-discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I'm in agreement.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Ron Lockhart
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> From: "David via NSRCA-discussion"
> >>>>>>>>> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
> >>>>>>>>> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 1:14:21 AM
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming device
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I'm not trying to bring up a sore subject but
> this has been
> bugging me since it was up a while back. I am the senior
> electronics
> technician in the plasma physics department at the
> University of Wisconsin.
> About a third of what I do is make interlock circuits for
> the Madison
> Symmetric Torus. I know that the best way of keeping
> things safe is to
> remove the potential energy from a circuit to keep bad
> things from
> happening. The problem with depending on a circuit such as
> the emcotec type
> of disconnect or to just relying solely on the radio and
> ESC to keep things
> safe is failure modes. You can plan for all different
> failure types but to
> make it a circuit that isn't a lead brick being added to
> the plane there are
> compromises that have to be made. This leads to designing
> systems that may
> deal with only the most common types of failures. For
> example most common
> diodes and tantalum capacitors usually fail in a shorted
> mode, but not
> always. Many carbon resistors will decrease in résistance
> just prior to
> opening up. You get the idea, there are just so many
> possibilities and
> combinations that in my opinion the only real way to safe
> a power system is
> to disconnect the energy source. Ok, now I feel better
> that I said
> something.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> David
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>>>>>>>>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>>>>>>>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>>>>>>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>>>>>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> > _______________________________________________
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
> _______________________________________________
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> <Mail
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>
>
> --
>
> *Scott A. McHarg*
>
> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
>
> Texas A&M University
>
> PPL - ASEL
>
>
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