Yep. I've definitely considered that approach as an option for the judge's preference. The problem then is just complexity in the UI
Sent from Outlook
On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 3:59 PM -0700, "Stuart Chale" <schale1 at outlook.com> wrote:
Sounds very interesting and it seems everyone was happy with it. We
have had some conversations about it at recent events only
speculating as none of us had seen it in person at that point. I
see that there is an earpiece which is nice as we were wondering
about other judges or the pilot hearing scores as they were
recorded. Could be a bit unnerving to hear a string of 5 or 6's
behind you :)
Any thought about not having the maneuver score read to you? Just
the downgrades, 1/2, 1, for each click or 0 for the maneuver?
That way the judge doesn't hear a number and say that the maneuver
was better than that and change the score.
Just something we were discussing.
Stuart
On 6/8/2015 6:52 PM, Peter Vogel via
NSRCA-discussion wrote:
Bet I can beat it :-) There's no way a human can
type the scores into a program faster than they flow in
automatically and sheets print :-) Even with the very slow
printer I had at Canandaigua I had sheets in people's hands
before they removed the batteries. When I have a quicker
printer I'm providing sheets as people walk the plane back from
the flight line.
But really, that's a minor part of the whole thing. It's
really about changing the experience for judges for the better
and hopefully getting greater judging accuracy, (the pilot
experience improvements of getting your scores earlier and
having the real-time scoreboard is just gravy). There's also
a lot to be said for reducing the task loading of being the
score keeper for a contest so you can actually sit back and
enjoy the contest environment & camaraderie!
Invite me to a contest and see! :-)
Peter+
On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 3:40 PM,
cahochhalter via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
wrote:
Its really tough to get rid of the shstem in D6,
seems fairly quick. Most guys cant get their batts out
of their plane or back to the pits before they get their
sheets.
We are a bit spoiled in that regard, ask anyone who
has visited from out of District where this has
occured.. Mind blown.
Chuck
Sent from my
Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: atwooddon--- via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Date: 06/08/2015 4:31 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: aabdu at sbcglobal.net,
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry
System - Thoughts
What Mark A didn't tell you is you
need a 'Viewing Ticket' that you can only get from Peter
if you want to congregate around the monitor showing
scores immediately after a pilot's flight... Kinda like
a back stage pass....
Just kidding, we have had the luxury
of using this system here in District 7 as it has been
developed. I hate the thought of ever going back to
manual entry and waiting for printouts!!
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: W Anthony Abdullah via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
To: Peter Vogel <vogel.peter at gmail.com>;
General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Mon, Jun 8, 2015 2:25 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Electronic Score Entry System - Thoughts
Wow!
It sounds amazing, can't wait to see it in person.
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 8, 2015, at 4:54 PM, Peter Vogel via
NSRCA-discussion < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
wrote:
Part of the kit I bring along stands up a LOCAL WiFi, I
do not depend on a cellular connection at all, if I have
a decent connection I'll publish scores live as they
happen to https://www.patternscoring.com
but for the actual operation of a contest I don't need
anything. Just the local WiFi I stand up.
Peter+
On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 1:37 PM, S.
McNickle <nelson_jett at comcast.net>
wrote:
Does the system require a WiFi connection or a strong
cell connection to work?
From: "Peter Vogel via
NSRCA-discussion" < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
To: "Mark Atwood" < atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>,
"General pattern discussion" < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2015 12:42:07 PM
Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry System -
Thoughts
Thanks Mark! It's been a lot of
work, but notes like yours make it all
worthwhile!
Thrilled to be able to contribute back to the sport I
love!
Peter+
On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 8:36 AM, Atwood, Mark via
NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
wrote:
See if this is any better…. Straight
text.
I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter
Vogel’s new electronic score entry system this
weekend. I don’t want to call it a scoring system
because that credit should still go to Scott Smith
whose scoring program is what Peter’s system is
integrated with. Both of these gentleman have put in
100’s if not 1000’s of hours of programming into this
effort.
And it’s fantastic.
So some thoughts about new score
entry system in no particular order.
1) It works. Period. End of story. 25
guys who had never touched it before not only learned
it, but used it efficiently with a 5 minute intro and
sitting down and scoring a demo flight. ZERO missed
maneuvers, no lost scores, no complaints. NADA.
2) The system actually uses downgrade
scoring. I.e. you click the 1/2pt (or full pt) down
everytime you see a downgrade. It takes practice
flight before you realize that you need to click on
everything you see…rather than do mental math or
create a perception of the maneuver, but once you do,
it’s enlightening.
3) The score range widens. This is a good
thing. It wasn’t drastic, but rather than a long
diatribe of 7’s and 8’s, if you go look at the score
sheets (I highly suggest surfing through the www.patternscoring.com
site) you’ll see many score sheets that feature both
5’s and 10’s on the same page.
4) More 10’s. If you don’t see a
downgrade…that 10 is just sitting there. There’s no
longer the pressure to write down a 9 simply because
“no one actually flies a 10”.
5) Long complex maneuvers (hour glass for
example) get the pounding they deserve. The
opportunity for downgrades in these maneuvers is
massive…and when the judge is just clicking away,
well… we get hammered. And we should. Every missed
angle, every missed radius, the over cooked snap, etc
etc. Your 7 just became a 4.5
6) Surprisingly consistent judging between
both judges on the line. Shockingly consistent
actually. I consider that another endorsement for
the system.
7) More engaged judging. This was big for
me. I personally feel like I start to glaze over
after the 8th (or worse …18th) Masters flight in a
contest. It’s very hard to stay consistent and stay
alert and not revert to perception judging in the old
paper and pencil format. This eliminated that
completely. You’re actively engaged throughout each
maneuver and each flight. Both physically recording
downgrades and watching intently for them. I felt it
was MUCH easier to be a good judge and an alert judge.
8) Every maneuver called out loud for the
judge, for every pilot, for every round. This made
judging the new sequences, which I hadn’t judged yet,
simple.
9) You never need to look down from the
plane. Really. Never. What’s interesting here
is that you begin to notice all the downgrades that
occur in the transition between manuevers. No more
free fixes!
10) It seems to greatly reduce or even
eliminate the influence that the prior maneuver has on
the scores. I know this shouldn’t be the case… but we
all know it is. Someone that’s flown a train wreck of
6’s suddenly flies a clean Split S turn and think
“wow…that was pretty good…8”. On this system you’re
just clicking downgrades…that same Split S just scored
a 10. As it should have.
11) Your scores are up on the big screen,
normalized to whom ever has already flown that round,
before your plane rolls to a stop. Literally. And
if you’re up first?? Well, take a picture because for
the moment… you’re winning!
In summary, this will be the single biggest
advancement in scoring for pattern since the
introduction of normalization. It’s going to take a
year or two to get everyone in the country familiar
with the system (and get systems purchased for use)
before we can use it at a Nats, but we’ll get there,
and quickly. I was extremely skeptical, for about 5
minutes.
You’ll fear it. You’ll use it. You’ll love it.
‘nuff said.
Well done Peter. Very well done.
-Mark
MARK
ATWOOD
President
o. (440) 229-2502
c. (216) 316-2489
e. atwoodm at paragon-inc.com
Paragon Consulting,
Inc.
5900 Landerbrook Drive,
Suite 205, Cleveland Ohio,
44124
www.paragon-inc.com
Powering The Digital
Experience
On Jun 8, 2015, at 11:34 AM, Atwood, Mark via
NSRCA-discussion < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
wrote:
What the Heck???
Mine didn’t come through that way at all!! Sorry
guys… I’ll see if I can repost it
cleaner.
MARK
ATWOOD
President
o. (440) 229-2502
c. (216) 316-2489
e. atwoodm at paragon-inc.com
Paragon Consulting,
Inc.
5900 Landerbrook
Drive, Suite 205, Cleveland Ohio,
44124
www.paragon-inc.com
Powering The Digital
Experience
On Jun 8, 2015, at 11:31 AM, Anthony Romano via
NSRCA-discussion < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
wrote:
+1
If you fumble through all of the weird format issues
with Mark's email there is a lot of great comments
there and just about everyone will agree with every
one. I was asked many time when is our district going
to buy one.
Anthony
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33
+0000
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry
System - Thoughts
From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s
new electronic score entry system this weekend. I don’t
want to call it a scoring system because that credit
should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
what Peter’s system is integrated with. Both of these
gentleman have put in 100’s if not 1000’s of hours of
programming into this
effort.
And it’s
fantastic.
So some thoughts about new score entry system in no
particular order.
cussion at lists.nsrca.org
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 15:25:33 +0000
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic Score Entry
System - Thoughts
From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
I had the privilege this weekend of using Peter Vogel’s
new electronic score entry system this weekend. I don’t
want to call it a scoring system because that credit
should still go to Scott Smith whose scoring program is
what
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NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
--
Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics
District X
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