[NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: Matt Finley ( Arming Plug )

Tue Feb 24 15:02:57 AKST 2015

NOT THE WAY I FLY!  My airplane is protected from snap roll errors by a
foolproof safety system that involves ensuring that I enter and exit snap
mode only if I stand on one leg while my caller calls the and rests his/her
hand on my shoulder whispering "snap mode" in my ear, I then touch my ear
twice in just the right way before flipping the switch on my transmitter.
Exiting snap condition is the exact opposite, I touch my ear twice and my
caller whispers "exit snap mode", I then return to a two-legged stance and
flip the switch on my transmitter.  With this absolutely foolproof safety
system I am ensured of getting 10's on every snap I do.

Peter+

On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Jon Lowe via NSRCA-discussion <
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

> Always stirring up trouble!
>
> If it ain't a barrel roll, and it ain't an axial roll, it must be a snap
> roll. Best definition I ever heard for what is REALLY done in AMA and FAI.
>
> Now we'll start hearing a whole bunch of BS about stalled conditions,
> departure from straight and level, etc etc.
>
> I'll shut up now.....
>
> Jon
> ------------------------------
> On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 Ronald Van Putte via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
> Please remember that I warned about a potential “holy war” if we started
> discussing arming plugs.
>
>  Let’s talk about snap rolls or something else that’s not controversial.
> I kinda think that the “flick snaps” in F3A are really neat and the pilots
> whose airplanes perform the snaps in which the tail cones all around should
> be severely downgraded..
>
>  Ron Van Putte
>
>   On Feb 24, 2015, at 3:15 PM, Matthew Finley via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>  I know, I thought before this thread was over we would be going back to
> one piece wings, single aileron and tail servos, and non computerized tx's
> lol
>
>   Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >
> Date: 02/24/2015 4:10 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To:  jpavlick at idseng.com , John Pavlick < jpavlick26 at att.net >, General
> pattern discussion < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matt Finley ( Arming Plug )
>
>  I know.  This effectively kills the idea for an automatic, electronic
> rag thrower.
>
>
>
> On Feb 24, 2015, at 4:09 PM, John Pavlick via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>    Be careful, you just made WAY too much sense! LOL
>
>
>  John Pavlick
>  Cell: 203-417-4971
>
>
>  <image001.png>
>  Integrated Development Services
>
>
>   *From:*  NSRCA-discussion [
> mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] *On Behalf Of *John Gayer via
> NSRCA-discussion
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 24, 2015 3:53 PM
> *To:* General pattern discussion
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matt Finley ( Arming Plug )
>
>
>
> An arming plug was never intended to be the cure-all for all electric
> safety issues. I consider it a baseline that is easy to comply with. All
> the anecdotal evidence in the world that each responder to this list is
> safe does not help establish a minimum set of standards. Each one of you
> has a good process that works for you. Each one of those processes could be
> easily amended to incorporate an arming plug if it doesn't already.
> It isn't those with a good process that are the safety problem. It's the
> neophyte that hears the experienced pilot expound on why he is safe without
> an arming plug because he does everything else right. The beginner doesn't
> hear or doesn't understand all the issues with setting up failsafe,
> throttle cut, arming conditions, thumb on throttle stick that are part of
> that process of achieving safe operations in the pits and on the runway
> whether you have an arming plug or not.
> I have seen models without arming plugs, without external receiver
> switches and canopies that require two hands to remove. Last time I checked
> failsafe operation at a contest, full throttle kill was running about 50%.
> Most of the remaining were simply going to hold which doesn't help at all
> if you already have a problem. Eventually a setup like that will cause a
> disaster.
> An arming plug is a small thing to add. It can be done lightly, cheaply
> and reliably. It provides a visual indication to all that the motor/ESC is
> unpowered. It is not dependent on any other function in the model to
> operate.
> John
>  On 2/23/2015 10:49 PM, Steve Hannah via NSRCA-discussion wrote:
>
>  I agree 100% with Jerry.
>
>
>   The multiple throttle kill approach is the best. I have seen the same
> things as Jerry. The best safety approach is always a multi-pronged
> solution.
>
>
>   I use a slider to drop the throttle below arming level and a switch to
> nullify the throttle stick. Then, for added security I always hold the
> stick down with my thumb as my caller/helper retrieves the plane. They
> usually don't turn off the receiver so I assume my plane is live until I
> prove otherwise and shut it down.
>
>
>   An external plug is one way, but I fail to see how it provides any more
> safety than my method. Switching it off from my transmitter and disabling
> the throttle stick are very secure means and I know the ESC has been shut
> down. I don't rely on a person to pull a plug.
>
>
>
> Along with that, proving you have a failsafe is a reasonable request and
> shouldn't be an issue for anyone.
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 23, 2015, at 08:50, Budd Engineering via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>   At nearly every contest I've attended since I started flying electric
> in pattern (the 2004 Nats in Masters) I've seen at least one occurrence
> where someone retrieved a plane without removing an arming plug first.
> Usually the pilot reminds the person to do it while they're carrying the
> plane back or as they're setting it down somewhere.  It happens with my
> planes too and I make sure they switch the receiver off and then I remove
> my canopy and disconnect the battery directly.  But before they even get
> that far I've taken the other steps to make sure there's virtually no
> chance the motor is going to run.
>
>
>   My point is this.  A layered approach is the only way I've found to
> effectively mitigate this particular risk to the levels of safety that you
> claim.  Relying on someone to remove an arming plug is not a complete
> panacea and may lend a false sense of security that the motor system has
> been de-energized, when in fact it may not have been.  There's many ways to
> manage the risk to the desired level, the use of an arming plug is one, and
> may not necessarily be the best.
>
>
>   Jerry
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Feb 23, 2015, at 5:29 AM, Matthew Finley via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>
> *I use the Ultra Deans stlye Arming Plug from F3A Unlimited, and It works
> very well. I would gather it provides you with a 99 % dagree of confidence
> that your caller , plane carrier , yourself, or anyone else will not be
> harmed. Yes... I do agree that there is a miniscuel chance that a pilot /
> caller could forget to unplug the safety, however I feel most pilots that
> have been doing it a while is like tying your shoes, or etc.... On all of
> my electrics except for indoor ships, I have some sort of disconnect. I for
> one would like to see it an inforced rule at all sanctioned meets not just
> pattern meets, that any plane over a certain size or weight must have one
> in order to fly. Just my three pennies *
>
> *Matthew E. Finley*
> QCI - Technology Assistant
> 614-557-3846 Mobile
> mfinley at quadcityinnovations.com
>
>
>
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-- 
Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
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