[NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21

Tue Dec 15 10:19:06 AKST 2015

Sure but you do realize the compliance dates, right?

December 21, 2015 • Any small unmanned aircraft to be used exclusively as
model aircraft that have never been operated. • Small unmanned aircraft to
be used in authorized operations as other than model aircraft continue to
use part 47 registration process.

 February 19, 2016 • Small unmanned aircraft to be used exclusively as
model aircraft and have been operated by their owner prior to December 21,
2015.

March 31, 2016 • Small unmanned aircraft to be used in authorized
operations other than as model aircraft continue to use part 47
registration process or use part 48 process. § 48.5

Essentially, they're saying if it has never flown prior to Dec. 21, it has
to be registered prior to flying it.  How exactly are they going to
pre-register models with zero time frame not to mention all those recently
sold for the holidays?

*Scott A. McHarg*
VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
Texas A&M University
PPL - ASEL

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 1:12 PM, Dana Beaton <danamaenia at me.com> wrote:

> No, not FAA, lawyers will advise manufactures, importers, resellers, etc.
> to limit their liability by including registration information as part of
> their business processes, so that the end user would be informed.  A
> product liability warning, like all the paper that comes with new power
> tools or lawn mowers.
>
>
> On Dec 15, 2015, at 2:09 PM, Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> So, you think the FAA is going to "make" all of the factories in China,
> Thailand, and Singapore comply with their rule?  Me thinks not.
>
> *Scott A. McHarg*
> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
> Texas A&M University
> PPL - ASEL
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Peter Vogel <vogel.peter at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The FAA also mentions "pre-registered" aircraft.  I believe that the
>> manufacturers will be pre-registering aircraft to their customers, but I
>> could be wrong.
>>
>> Peter+
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 10:33 AM, DaveL322 via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>>> To limit liability, all manufacturers, retailers, and clubs will have to
>>> include the new regs with every vehicle and every membership sold/offered.
>>> And of course the rogues that have caused the problems and will continue to
>>> cause the problems will not register.
>>>
>>> It is the camels nose in the tent, it is the slippery slope, it is yet
>>> again another unelected bureaucratic over reach that will accomplish little
>>> or nothing other than grow wasteful government and degrade personal
>>> liberty.  It will be a tool used by the FAA to characterize all modelers as
>>> irresponsible operators causing the problems, and we (the vast majority)
>>> will be subject to ever increasingly restrictive (and uneffective)
>>> egulations targeted to control the tiny minority.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> Please pardon any spelling errors or brevity.....Sent on a Sprint
>>> Samsung Galaxy Note® 3
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion <
>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>> Date: 12/15/2015 13:05 (GMT-05:00)
>>> To: James Hiller <jnhiller at earthlink.net>, General pattern discussion <
>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>>>
>>> My question is.....
>>>
>>> Since the FAA has no ability to put something in place at the point of
>>> sale and since the FAA cannot make a law and only a rule, how are they
>>> going to let all the Best Buy / Radio Shack / Walmart / online store buyers
>>> know that they must register?  There are going to be so many new operators
>>> out there that have no idea this is happening.  I heard a ridiculous number
>>> of the amount of these toys being sold just this Christmas season.  They
>>> obviously did not think this through.  Announcement and implementation all
>>> in one week.  That's the fastest I've ever seen a bureaucracy work even if
>>> it did benefit them.
>>>
>>> *Scott A. McHarg*
>>> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
>>> Texas A&M University
>>> PPL - ASEL
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 11:56 AM, James Hiller via NSRCA-discussion <
>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Does anyone really believe an outlaw operator is going to put a number
>>>> on their toy of choice?
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [mailto:
>>>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of *Ed Alt via
>>>> NSRCA-discussion
>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 15, 2015 9:15 AM
>>>> *To:* Dana Beaton
>>>> *Cc:* John Ford; General pattern discussion
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dana
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The identity theft risk with the FAA number is that if someone places
>>>> your number on their model and causes property damage or injuries or worse,
>>>> then the FAA and law enforcement are coming down on your head.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 15, 2015, at 8:34 AM, Dana Beaton <danamaenia at me.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Ed, Andy and I joined Buc-Le in Quakertown this week since Farview
>>>> closed (due to excess turbine traffic outraging the neighbors, having
>>>> nothing to do with drones or nefarious non-members).  Buc-Le requires that
>>>> club membership cards, or AMA cards for guests, be placed on the board
>>>> while we fly.  Many clubs have a system like this.  The LVRCS still does,
>>>> but we now permit members to wear their membership cards if they don’t want
>>>> to use the board.  Someone who wants to borrow an identity, copy or steal
>>>> an AMA card, can just stroll up to the box: No need for someone to help one
>>>> of us find parts to a downed model, it’s that simple today to grab a name
>>>> and number of someone who is reputable in the hobby to hide behind.  I have
>>>> not heard of this happeningso it seems so unlikely, even now with
>>>> registration coming down the pike.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the coming compliance environment, the new normal for AMA members,
>>>> what may mar our hobby is reputable hobbyist pilots NOT registering?  I get
>>>> that a lot of us are angry at what has transpired, but let’s think through
>>>> the more probable scenarios and avoid needless troubles for ourselves and
>>>> clubs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Decades ago when I was training for my Private Pilot ticket we still
>>>> had the large registration numbers, N numbers, on general aviation planes.
>>>> Every instructor had stories about the one little old lady who called the
>>>> police every time she saw a low flying aircraft overhead.  While the pilot
>>>> in question may have been in fact at a legal altitude/separation per the
>>>> FARs, that did not stop those nuisance calls.  When the police came to ask
>>>> around in these stories, nothing ever came of the complaints as the pilots,
>>>> operators, etc. all had their documents in order and were flying
>>>> responsibly.  Just crank calls that burdened the cops, resulting no
>>>> problems for the flight school.  What I am getting at is if and when our
>>>> neighbor calls around about activity at our clubs, should the locals come
>>>> around asking, we will have all our documents in order.  If asked, like
>>>> John suggests, we can produce registration.  End of story.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OTOH, if neighbors complain and local authorities cannot establish that
>>>> club members are operating within guidelines, there could be more questions
>>>> than the situation would otherwise merit.  That is the more likely scenario
>>>> in my mind than bad actors stealing my identity to fly drones badly.  We
>>>> might want to worry more about the mundane stuff like that than the more
>>>> elaborate scenarios?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Respectfully/anonymously (LOL),
>>>>
>>>> Dana
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 15, 2015, at 8:01 AM, Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion <
>>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That should work for the most part.  Don't ever let anyone help you
>>>> look for a lost/crashed model I guess.  There are still complications for
>>>> various scenarios, such as for anyone who wants to teach a student to fly
>>>> etc.
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> From: jsf106 at gmail.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>>>> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 07:37:04 -0500
>>>> CC: ed_alt at hotmail.com
>>>> To: mark.grabowski at comcast.net; nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>
>>>> On my plane, the number will be accessible without tools, per the rule,
>>>> but unless asked by an FAA official, I'm not offering to show where it is
>>>> to anyone.
>>>>
>>>> I need to have my registration with me, and I will, but no one gets to
>>>> see it. As the rule says, this is between me and the FAA.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not up to the clubs or the AMA to police individuals on behalf of the
>>>> FAA, so identity theft should not be a problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 15, 2015, at 7:12 AM, Comcast via NSRCA-discussion <
>>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Been thinking the very same thing. Someone steals a user number, does
>>>> something stupid and then there's a knock at my door. Without a great alibi
>>>> what are you gonna do???
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 15, 2015, at 5:23 AM, Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion <
>>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Speaking of use cases, perhaps I missed it in the flurry of emails
>>>> yesterday, but has anyone thought about the identity theft risk that the
>>>> FAA is creating?  By registering the pilot and not having unique
>>>> identification numbers for each model that are assigned to an owner, it
>>>> sets up the scenario for anyone else to use your number on their model and
>>>> cause virtually unlimited problems for you, anywhere, anytime.  To help
>>>> reduce this risk, at the very least, the numbers would have to be provided
>>>> by the FAA with some sort of marking, holography, whatever to at least
>>>> raise the difficulty of identity theft from zero to something above zero.
>>>> You can apparently use a felt marker to scribble your own numbers as it
>>>> stands now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Better yet, from an identity theft perspective at least, there should
>>>> be unique numbers for each model provided to the owner.  This, of course
>>>> would drive costs way up and incur delays.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We should put the central planners in charge of every aspect of our
>>>> lives now, should we not?  They've really shown their true colors on this
>>>> one.  Incompetent boobs, every last one of them.
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 15:53:22 -0800
>>>> To: acornacchione at hotmail.com; nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>>>> From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>
>>>> Honestly, I think thats one of the use-cases the FAA didn't think
>>>> through real well...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My belief is that this whole thing is about creating a sense of
>>>> accountability for the "rogue" users (I'm not willing to give them the term
>>>> pilot because they don't deserve it) who do stupid shit like flying around
>>>> a wildfire and preventing Calfire airborne response for 20+ minutes, etc.
>>>> It's about dealing with the anti-AMA guys who fly 120+mph EDFs weighing 6+
>>>> lbs over an active soccer game at a local park, it's about dealing with the
>>>> dipshits who fly their drone on the takeoff/approach path of an active full
>>>> scale airport in hopes of "cool footage".  The AMA field flyers are the
>>>> least of the FAA's worries and we're blowing it out of proportion.  Yes,
>>>> it's a stupid regulation, but let's comply where we can and show ourselves
>>>> to be the responsible modelers the AMA says we are.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For the foreign guys, first of all, sorry for the needless red tape
>>>> (though I think a similar thing is coming for the BMFA guys in the UK and
>>>> it would not surprise me to see a more sensible version of this from the
>>>> Canadian guys).  But if I were CD'ing a contest and some guys came down
>>>> from the Great White North, I'd happily hook them up with some temporary
>>>> form of my own registration # to put in their planes for the purposes of
>>>> flying at the contest because I know them to be responsible pilots.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Peter+
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:46 PM, Anthony Cornacchione via
>>>> NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Legit question with an unknown answer:  how will this impact
>>>> international (IMAC Worlds in Muncie 2018) NATS with international
>>>> competitors (NATS News this year had a nice write up) and our local
>>>> contests which have had the occasional Canadian wander south?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 14, 2015, at 6:33 PM, Dana Beaton via NSRCA-discussion <
>>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Boaters register their pleasure craft, fishermen & hunters buy
>>>> licenses, some folks even register their firearms! So what? Are we going to
>>>> give up our hobby just because of a tiny pice of red tape? Nope! Just keep
>>>> flying. The bad actors who misuse their aircraft will run afoul local
>>>> authorities sure enough, that's their problem, not ours.  We need to
>>>> continue to set the good example though our good flying.  Good flying will
>>>> carry the day.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 14, 2015, at 6:25 PM, Dave Burton via NSRCA-discussion <
>>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So, just shut up and drink the Kool-Aid?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [
>>>> mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>>> <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] *On Behalf Of *Derek
>>>> Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2015 6:15 PM
>>>> *To:* Atwood, Mark; General pattern discussion
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yep.... yep... yep.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion <
>>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hasn’t that private information ship already sailed?  We all register
>>>> cars and think nothing of it.  Heck, we even took classes, got educated,
>>>> and were tested for a license before we could own or operate a car and we
>>>> have to renew that every four years and prove we’re still physically
>>>> capable (minimal proof admittedly).  Personally not sure a gun should be
>>>> much different but don’t want to start that discussion (especially since
>>>> I’m generally pro gun…just not pro redneck hill jack survivalist conspiracy
>>>> theorist) but not registering to fly airplanes?  Really?    We trade more
>>>> info internationally downloading a Facebook app.    Also, we’re already
>>>> registered… just with the AMA, not the USA.  And yes, the AMA is trying to
>>>> make that our ONLY registration, but that’s just a proposal at this point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Guys… we already do ALL of this.  Our AMA # is on the plane, we follow
>>>> safety rules, blah blah blah.  This is a very minor inconvenience and if
>>>> the AMA proposal to use our AMA# for our registration number it won’t even
>>>> be that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 14, 2015, at 5:15 PM, Dave Burton via NSRCA-discussion <
>>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now is the time for massive civil disobedience!
>>>>
>>>> I don't think I'd register my planes any more than I'd register my guns.
>>>>
>>>> Too bad AMA has no clout like the NRA.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [
>>>> mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>>> <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] *On Behalf Of *Robert L.
>>>> Beaubien via NSRCA-discussion
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2015 1:23 PM
>>>> *To:* Scott McHarg; General pattern discussion
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Morons at work….
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -           Robert Beaubien
>>>>
>>>> -           DronePlastics.com <http://droneplastics.com/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> “Dear Algebra, Please stop asking us to find your X.  She's never
>>>> coming back and don't ask Y.”
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [
>>>> mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>>> <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] *On Behalf Of *Scott
>>>> McHarg via NSRCA-discussion
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2015 11:05 AM
>>>> *To:* General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, here it is boys and girls.  It's official and starts next
>>>> Monday.  The link is for the FAQ's of what's happening.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  You only have to register once and you don't have to individually
>>>> register all of your models.
>>>>
>>>> You must be able to provide proof of registration and have it on you
>>>> when flying.
>>>>
>>>> You must have your Registration # (not going to be a N number) in your
>>>> airplane where it is legible and accessible without the use of tools (aka
>>>> under your canopy).
>>>>
>>>> If you sell a model, you should update your records. (I don't
>>>> completely understand this if we aren't registering all of our models
>>>> individually but, OK)
>>>>
>>>> Registration is $5 but you'll get that back if you register in the
>>>> first 30 days, I believe.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have a look at the link and prepare to be upset.....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Scott A. McHarg*
>>>>
>>>> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
>>>>
>>>> Texas A&M University
>>>>
>>>> PPL - ASEL
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
>>>>
>>>> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
>>>>
>>>> Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
>>>>
>>>> Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
>> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
>> Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
>> Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
>>
>>
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