[NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll

Mon Aug 24 20:54:16 AKDT 2015

MAN did an article on flying scale maneuvers. Here is the barrel roll including control inputs;
Barrel RollsThere are variations on this, but basically, it’s a roll with up-elevator added, kind of like a horizontal spiral, and it’s actually difficult to do well (figure 1). First, pitch the nose up gently. As it passes through 20 degrees, keep the up-elevator in, and add both left aileron and a bit of left rudder. To get most scale planes to perform a large barrel roll slowly, rudder is necessary. As you approach the top of the roll (inverted), release most of the up-elevator but not all, and start feeding it back in as you come around to upright. You want to avoid negative G. Keeping this in mind will help you execute this maneuver properly.Adjust the angles and throws for the 45 degree upline.
Herb

  On Monday, August 24, 2015 4:50 PM, David Cook via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

 Barrel roll instructional videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gBxCShr1_g
DC
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 3:03 PM, Keith Hoard via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

See: Bob Hoover -Keith Hoard
-klhoard at outlook.com  
From: Matt K via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 10:57
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll  Barrel Rolls?? hell man, take a wine cask, remove the top and get in. Then roll downhill...QED  -----Original Message-----
From: Tom Stennis via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
To: Jon Lowe <jonlowe at aol.com>; General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Mon, Aug 24, 2015 12:30 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel rollI was taught to do a barrel roll by picking a point on the horizon put your nose to one side of the point pick up a little speed then pull nose up applying aileron to track around the original point if done correctly coordinated maneuver if done properly glass of water set on dash of airplane will not spill. 

Sent from my iPad 
On Aug 23, 2015, at 7:10 PM, Jon Lowe via NSRCA-discussion < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote: 
You have to remember that FAI came up with the Clown Dance maneuver. Maybe that says something about the people coming up with these maneuvers.

Jon On Sunday, August 23, 2015 DaveL322 via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote: Not long ago.....we had a fighter turn....it included a half outside loop....not something a fighter pilot would ever choose to do.  I'm betting the full scale techniques might not be too applicable to our "barrel roll".  Regards,  Dave  Please pardon any spelling errors or brevity.....Sent on a Sprint Samsung Galaxy Note® 3 

-------- Original message -------- From: John Fuqua via NSRCA-discussion < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
Date: 08/23/2015 6:58 PM (GMT-05:00) 
To: 'General pattern discussion' < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll We need a full scale aerobatic pilot to chip in.   I always thought a barrel roll was an aileron roll with the application of positive G.   ie you gotta add elevator during the roll which will give you the barrel look. From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 11:26 AM
To: Ed Alt; NSRCA List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll Perhaps a barrel roll isn’t the best name for this maneuver – I would call it a slow wave roll instead.  There are very clear areas of judging criteria to look for in this maneuver…. First the pull to a 45 up line, the knife edge view of the plane at the top radius of the 45 up line, the inverted downline, the knife edge on the bottom radius and the completion (upright) view of the plane on the 45 up line before a push to level flight.  Since this roll would have to be flown slowly, the difficulty is pretty high.  Obviously ensuring that all the radii are the same as well. From: NSRCA-discussion on behalf of NSRCA List
Reply-To: Ed Alt, NSRCA List
Date: Sunday, August 23, 2015 at 5:35 AM
To: NSRCA List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll I'm not sure , but after 100 years or so, it seems that the barrel roll may have a new definition.  This appears to require that the model skid around the entire rotation, which is not really how a barrel roll is typically done as far as I know.  I believe that you would normally do one mainly with simultaneous pitch and roll inputs, and maybe touches of rudder to keep that coordinated, in much the same  way as  a coordinated turn would be done in a full scale aircraft to keep the turn & bank indicator's ball centered. As a result, it would present itself as if the aircraft were traveling along the inside of a cylinder with both of it's main gear wheels always in contact with its inner surface, hence the name barrel roll.  Executed this way, you could do that Bob Hoover demonstration of keeping a glass of some liquid perfectly still, resting on top of the instrument panel. This definition seems to be more of a variation on an integrated roll, and as a result you would expect to see the tail pointed at perhaps a 45 deg yaw angle at one point (when roll angle = 90 deg), and the nose yawed at you 45 deg at another (when roll angle = 180 deg).  And I think that as a result it would also mean that the wing tip in the direction of the roll would always be in contact with the inner surface of the imaginary cylinder, instead of both wheels.  Am I visualizing that correctly?  It seems like it would be tricky to judge accurately. Ed Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 23:10:49 -0700
To: underdw at gmail.com; nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll
From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.orgHopefully this helps…    From: NSRCA-discussion on behalf of NSRCA List
Reply-To: Daniel Underkofler, NSRCA List
Date: Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 6:21 PM
To: NSRCA List
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll In F17 there is a cryptic aresti symbol that is described in the figure description as a barrel roll.  Will somebody please describe this in more detail and what control inputs will obtain the required result? Thanks, Dan_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
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