[NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll

Mon Aug 24 16:23:14 AKDT 2015

Army Training, Sir!!!

-Keith Hoard

-klhoard at outlook.com

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On
Behalf Of Karl Watts via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 19:22
To: David Cook <dlcook083 at gmail.com>; General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll

Where do you guys find this stuff??!!

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 24, 2015, at 5:51 PM, David Cook via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> wrote:

Barrel roll instructional video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gBxCShr1_g

DC

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 3:03 PM, Keith Hoard via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> wrote:

See: Bob Hoover

-Keith Hoard
-klhoard at outlook.com <mailto:klhoard at outlook.com> 

From: Matt K via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 10:57
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll

Barrel Rolls?? hell man, take a wine cask, remove the top and get in. Then
roll downhill...QED

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Stennis via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >
To: Jon Lowe <jonlowe at aol.com <mailto:jonlowe at aol.com> >; General pattern
discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >
Sent: Mon, Aug 24, 2015 12:30 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll

I was taught to do a barrel roll by picking a point on the horizon put your
nose to one side of the point pick up a little speed then pull nose up
applying aileron to track around the original point if done correctly
coordinated maneuver if done properly glass of water set on dash of airplane
will not spill. 

Sent from my iPad 

On Aug 23, 2015, at 7:10 PM, Jon Lowe via NSRCA-discussion <
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >
wrote: 

You have to remember that FAI came up with the Clown Dance maneuver. Maybe
that says something about the people coming up with these maneuvers.

Jon

On Sunday, August 23, 2015 DaveL322 via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> wrote: 

Not long ago.....we had a fighter turn....it included a half outside
loop....not something a fighter pilot would ever choose to do. 

I'm betting the full scale techniques might not be too applicable to our
"barrel roll". 

Regards, 

Dave 

Please pardon any spelling errors or brevity.....Sent on a Sprint Samsung
Galaxy NoteR 3 

-------- Original message -------- 

From: John Fuqua via NSRCA-discussion < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > 
Date: 08/23/2015 6:58 PM (GMT-05:00) 
To: 'General pattern discussion' < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > 
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll 

We need a full scale aerobatic pilot to chip in.   I always thought a barrel
roll was an aileron roll with the application of positive G.   ie you gotta
add elevator during the roll which will give you the barrel look.

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?> ] On Behalf Of Derek
Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 11:26 AM
To: Ed Alt; NSRCA List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll

Perhaps a barrel roll isn't the best name for this maneuver - I would call
it a slow wave roll instead.  There are very clear areas of judging criteria
to look for in this maneuver.. First the pull to a 45 up line, the knife
edge view of the plane at the top radius of the 45 up line, the inverted
downline, the knife edge on the bottom radius and the completion (upright)
view of the plane on the 45 up line before a push to level flight.  Since
this roll would have to be flown slowly, the difficulty is pretty high.
Obviously ensuring that all the radii are the same as well.

From: NSRCA-discussion on behalf of NSRCA List
Reply-To: Ed Alt, NSRCA List
Date: Sunday, August 23, 2015 at 5:35 AM
To: NSRCA List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll

I'm not sure , but after 100 years or so, it seems that the barrel roll may
have a new definition.  This appears to require that the model skid around
the entire rotation, which is not really how a barrel roll is typically done
as far as I know.  I believe that you would normally do one mainly with
simultaneous pitch and roll inputs, and maybe touches of rudder to keep that
coordinated, in much the same  way as  a coordinated turn would be done in a
full scale aircraft to keep the turn & bank indicator's ball centered. As a
result, it would present itself as if the aircraft were traveling along the
inside of a cylinder with both of it's main gear wheels always in contact
with its inner surface, hence the name barrel roll.  Executed this way, you
could do that Bob Hoover demonstration of keeping a glass of some liquid
perfectly still, resting on top of the instrument panel.

This definition seems to be more of a variation on an integrated roll, and
as a result you would expect to see the tail pointed at perhaps a 45 deg yaw
angle at one point (when roll angle = 90 deg), and the nose yawed at you 45
deg at another (when roll angle = 180 deg).  And I think that as a result it
would also mean that the wing tip in the direction of the roll would always
be in contact with the inner surface of the imaginary cylinder, instead of
both wheels.  Am I visualizing that correctly?  It seems like it would be
tricky to judge accurately.

Ed

Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 23:10:49 -0700
To: underdw at gmail.com <mailto:underdw at gmail.com> ;
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll
From: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 

Hopefully this helps.

From: NSRCA-discussion on behalf of NSRCA List
Reply-To: Daniel Underkofler, NSRCA List
Date: Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 6:21 PM
To: NSRCA List
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll

In F17 there is a cryptic aresti symbol that is described in the figure
description as a barrel roll.  Will somebody please describe this in more
detail and what control inputs will obtain the required result?

Thanks, Dan

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