[NSRCA-discussion] 2015 proposed sequences

Thu Aug 21 23:47:11 AKDT 2014

John,

That may have been the case pre-internet but now it isn't that hard to find
out about pattern through RC Universe and other similar sites and there is a
pattern article in Model Aviation every other month.  I do thing that having
a pattern article in Model Aviation every other month is a bit
disappointing.  The real problem is all of the above.  There isn't one or
two smoking guns but rather many such as : (1) pattern visibility (which is
what you said), (2) wow factor (IMAC heli), (3) pattern requires a lot of
practice, (4) competition is intimidating, (5) pattern planes aren't cheap,
(6) traveling to contests aren't cheap and I'm sure there are others that
I'm missing.

Quite frankly I'm fairly happy with the turnout in D4.  We normally get 20+
and we get 25+ and closer to 30 when we team with D5 which is a real treat.
The problem D4/D5 may have is that the diehards are getting older.  Heck I'm
47 and I'm on the young side of the crowd.  There are signs of hope for
D4/D5 with younger pilots like Brandon and Greyson.  If they don't meet
girls there is a chance that they will attract other younger pilots and the
cycle will continue.  I find that the club members I run into just don't see
the attraction of pattern.  They really don't care to learn to fly a nice
straight slow roll or 4-pt roll.  They want to hover and yank the sticks
around.  Watching pattern is like watching paint dry unfortunately.  The
real attraction of pattern is learning how to battle the elements and put
that plane exactly where you want it time and time again no matter what the
conditions.  Most AMA members could care less about that.

I think "a" solution but certainly not the only one is to continue to
attract the younger crowd like Mike Mueller did with Brandon and Bill
Pritchett did with Greyson and have them attract some of their friends.

How many pattern dads are there out there, that weren't able for whatever
reason to get their sons or daughters hooked on our sport? That right there
says a lot.

Ron

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On
Behalf Of John Pavlick via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 1:28 AM
To: 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2015 proposed sequences

Yes. This is painfully true. I only got involved in Pattern through a
strange sequence of events: I learned to fly right before turnaround had
started. I flew Pre-Novice and Novice with a Sig Kougar that I built (my
second big R/C airplane). I was just a 15-year old kid at the time. Then I
discovered cars and girls. Time passed... When I started flying again I
decided that I still wanted to fly Pattern. After asking at 3 local hobby
shops I couldn't find ANY information about Pattern contests in the area.
Then one day, someone in my local club told me about a "Pattern Primer"
contest in Massachusetts. I think he found out about it when he was at a fun
fly or something. Since there was NO Pattern activity in my home state of
Connecticut I planned on building a "real" Pattern plane and then driving up
to the contest in 2 weeks in my Saturn SC-2. A week of long nights and
determination produced the coolest Pattern plane I ever had: a red 40-size
Kaos Jr. with an OS40 FSR. I trimmed it out after work one day and I thought
I was ready for anything. When I got to the contest I thought I was in the
wrong place. I didn't recognize any of the planes. The giant things that I
saw were not what I was expecting. Where were the Tiporares and Curares? LOL

OK so I was a bit behind the times but the fact is I had NO IDEA what
Pattern was all about and I had to go looking for it. It wasn't in my face
every time I opened a model airplane magazine like it was back in the 70's.
I survived the "contest" and went on to finish out a season of 401 with the
little Kaos and then I picked up a used Focus 1 and a Dodge Grand Caravan so
I could haul the massive airplane around. I went on to win the D1 / 402
district championship with that airplane and I eventually went to the NATs
twice in the Caravan. I'm on a bit of a hiatus now because I'm in the middle
of launching a new startup. But I WILL return.

THIS is why there are fewer and fewer people at Pattern contests. Aside from
the cost of fuel and the crummy economy the problem is really simple. It's
not the difficulty of the sequences or the cost of the equipment. It's not
the weight rule or anything like that. It's really very simple: No one knows
what "Pattern" is anymore. How do we fix that? That's the REAL problem.

John Pavlick
Cell: 203-417-4971

Integrated Development Services

-----Original Message-----
From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On
Behalf Of John Ford via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:36 AM
To: Whodaddy Whodaddy; General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2015 proposed sequences

To my knowledge, I don't think I've heard too many (or any) pilots quit
pattern because it was too hard to do, or too expensive, or anything else.
IMAC and helicopters are at least as expensive, if not more, and the
classes' difficulty levels mirror our own, in my opinion.

What makes the difference is marketing. IMAC and helis are always high
profile at any event, the promoters do a good job of "selling" the pilots
and the equipment. Hobby shops always showcase the latest or the biggest.
The magazine adds almost always choose IMAC or helis to promote radios,
batteries, or fuels.

Back when Pattern was big and local contests had 40 pilots, the cover of the
magazines featured Hanno, Ivan, or Rhet, and the full-page glossy back cover
was of Ivan and his Summit 3, endorsing Carl Golberg widgets.

Today, if you walk in off the street as a rank beginner and you try to
"find" pattern, you gotta dig deep, go far, send lots of emails, and finally
you might (never for sure) come across a contest flyer. Then you go to the
contest and you find a bunch of really nice people, willing to drown you in
advice and help, but you realize pretty quickly that this group of people
are a bit off-center.sharply focused on planes, endless trimming, practicing
to the exclusion of all else, and sleeping on a bed of nails at night. Above
all, almost nobody knows they even exist in this little hidden world of RC
idealism.

Go to a hobby shop and say you want to do helicopters.same reaction as
walking into a ER saying you have chest pains.
Go to a hobby shop and say you want to do pattern.hmmm."well, there's a guy
I used to know that did some of that, I think, not sure if he's still
around.haven't seen him for a few years"...

That's where the difference is.

John

On Aug 19, 2014, at 7:14 AM, Whodaddy Whodaddy via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

> K factors should be rethought .. An eight point role with my Phoenix 8 is
alot different than with my current 2 meter .. Its like flying a gift now
days other than centering of the maneuver  yet retains the same or close to
the same k factor as many years past... Food for thought...
>
> Once again the current proposed pattern needs fixed or the numbers will
dwindle by at least one nxt year.. I can promise that..
>
>
> Gary
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 18, 2014, at 11:34 PM, John Gayer via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> Advanced and Masters are not our entry classes and should not affect
future participation. Those new to pattern should begin in either Sportsman
or Intermediate depending on skill level. When a flyer feels he is ready to
move up, he will try flying the next class in practice. If it is too
difficult to even see a way to fly that sequence reasonably, then that pilot
was not ready to move up and should stay in his current class another year
(or more). We do not lose people because they stayed in their current class,
we lose them because they moved up when not ready and find they are
outclassed without the vision, coordination, time to practice (or name your
reason) to be competitive. Not competitive for winning, just competitive.
>> Both Masters and Advanced can, and probably will be, changed next year.
Any substantial problems can be addressed then. Many have tested these
sequences. All have have flown them successfully, if not always happily. We
can go on and on about ugly maneuvers, difficulty levels and dislike of
change but that happens every cycle.
>>
>> Just for comparison here are Advanced and Masters from 20 years ago.
Overall both appear somewhat easier than the current sequences we are flying
but not a lot. Total KFactors are a bit lower. Also we are flying many of
the same maneuvers. I hope you noticed the knife edge top of the cobra in
masters. If you go back even further you can find a two roll loop in the
days before retracts...
>>
>> John Gayer
>>
>>
>> <ejceefij.png><eibcgfea.png>
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