[NSRCA-discussion] 2015 proposed sequences

Tue Aug 19 09:28:39 AKDT 2014

Simple fact its not progression that is this proposed patterns problem .. Not trying to diminish the inceptors accomplishments personally ..Or the grand schemers that want to rewrite all the pattern rules and traditions in one fatal swoop... But its laid out and presents poorly.. Its just to trickafied .. It doesn't flow  and several maneuvers are ill placed... Simple as that ... 

Not to mention it has a roller in it.. If u want to fly rollers move up...jmo

Gary

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 19, 2014, at 12:07 PM, James Hiller via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
> 
> For me being competitive is taking a back seat to mastering the challenge. The perceived increase in difficulty moving up from novice long ago to the current masters and each schedule change was challenging but by about mid it always became comfortable.
> The problem I have flying masters is that it's very difficult to fly comfortably  closer than 150 m. Old eyes are the problem not the difficulty, perceived or real I look forward to it. Yes cumulative experience helps as there isn't anything new just re-associated in  complex compound maneuvers often requiring that they be flown larger to accommodate the additional activity within, generally requiring that they be flown at a faster rhythm,  further out or with a lower flight speed.
> Off to the shop:
> Jim
>  
> From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:24 AM
> To: blotch44026 at mypacks.net; General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2015 proposed sequences
>  
> Gentlemen,
>  
> We talk about how some really appreciate the fact that the pattern gets progressively more challenging and others who completely resist change.  We talk about how some feel the sequences are harder while others feel that the new sequence, at least in Masters, is easier than the current sequence.  I do not see how the progression in sequences in the upper classes effects promoting our sport or bringing in new blood.  That makes no sense.
>  
> May I suggest that we again look at the ability for competitors to simply pick the class they'd feel most competitive in?  If the advancing sequence is too difficult and causes someone to quit over it, then maybe it's time for that competitor to step back to the previous class.  I believe that this doesn't happen currently because of pride to be honest.  I get that as well.  It's not easy for a competitive individual to step back.  It is, however, a fairly simple solution to a complex problem trying to make the majority happy.  Last rules cycle, we proposed a plan to allow folks to pick their class at the beginning of the year.  By no means am I saying that it was a perfect solution but the goal was also to open the door for discussion on how we could accomplish this as a group.  We all want to be competitive, that's why we fly pattern in competition.  We can be competitive against our peers or ourselves.  Either way, we are continually trying to make ourselves better.
>  
> I am not saying there aren't obstacles in our way of making something like this work but we are much stronger as a group.  I, for one, really like the new Masters sequence.  I also know that this sequence is only in place for one year so those maneuvers that just don't do well can be addressed for the two year cycle next year.  I also agree that we need to not only promote pattern to new people but keep the current pattern folk happy as well as challenge those that want to be challenged.  That's not an easy task.  Maybe the ability to switch to a class easily and solely by the competitors choice isn't such a bad idea.
> 
> Scott A. McHarg
> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.V. Pilot Texas A&M University
> PPL - ASEL
>  
> 
> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 9:54 AM, blotch44026--- via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
> Good points on brand awareness. I remember the days when Futaba and JR used to promote pattern. Not so much anymore. On the sequences, I fly Advanced and have been on the fence for a year or two concerning moving back up to Masters. I few Masters for one year back in 2000 but took several years off. I have flown both versions (V1 & V2) of the new advanced sequences and I like them but I preferred V1 as I like the inverted entry and exit challenges that V1 offered. Having said that there are many advanced pilots, including myself, that could be flying Masters but choose not to for one reason or another. The new proposed advanced schedule offers enough challenge to this group to keep us around in advanced for a while I think. In my area (D2), we have a few new pilots that came out of retirement like myself and offer good competition and challenges in advanced and some good intermediate pilots are now starting to move up so we will have a strong group and we should typically have around 6 advanced pilots at a local contest in the next year or so. I and others like me are coming from a different point of view though. I can understand some of the concerns that others might have with the new schedule concerning the intermediate pilot moving up. Back in the day when you went from sportsman to advanced, the big jump was learning the four point and the slow roll. I am not sure how this is all going to come out in the wash I just wanted to give a point of view from where I am and others that I know are, that are currently flying advanced and have been around a while. I am going to start working on the new proposed schedule for Masters and see what all of the fuss is about. To be perfectly honest though, the biggest determining factor in me moving up to Masters, or not, was my Nats experience a couple of years ago. The Advanced crew has a lot more fun :) The guys in Masters need to let their hair down a little, pull out the grills, and fire up some tunes.
> 
> Rick Sweeney
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: John Ford via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >Sent: Aug 19, 2014 8:36 AM
> >To: Whodaddy Whodaddy <whodaddy10 at gmail.com>, General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2015 proposed sequences
> >
> >To my knowledge, I don't think I've heard too many (or any) pilots quit pattern because it was too hard to do, or too expensive, or anything else.
> >IMAC and helicopters are at least as expensive, if not more, and the classes' difficulty levels mirror our own, in my opinion.
> >
> >What makes the difference is marketing. IMAC and helis are always high profile at any event, the promoters do a good job of "selling" the pilots and the equipment. Hobby shops always showcase the latest or the biggest. The magazine adds almost always choose IMAC or helis to promote radios, batteries, or fuels.
> >
> >Back when Pattern was big and local contests had 40 pilots, the cover of the magazines featured Hanno, Ivan, or Rhet, and the full-page glossy back cover was of Ivan and his Summit 3, endorsing Carl Golberg widgets.
> >
> >Today, if you walk in off the street as a rank beginner and you try to "find" pattern, you gotta dig deep, go far, send lots of emails, and finally you might (never for sure) come across a contest flyer. Then you go to the contest and you find a bunch of really nice people, willing to drown you in advice and help, but you realize pretty quickly that this group of people are a bit off-center…sharply focused on planes, endless trimming, practicing to the exclusion of all else, and sleeping on a bed of nails at night. Above all, almost nobody knows they even exist in this little hidden world of RC idealism.
> >
> >Go to a hobby shop and say you want to do helicopters…same reaction as walking into a ER saying you have chest pains.
> >Go to a hobby shop and say you want to do pattern…hmmm…"well, there's a guy I used to know that did some of that, I think, not sure if he's still around…haven't seen him for a few years"...
> >
> >That's where the difference is.
> >
> >John
> >
> >
> >On Aug 19, 2014, at 7:14 AM, Whodaddy Whodaddy via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
> >
> >> K factors should be rethought .. An eight point role with my Phoenix 8 is alot different than with my current 2 meter .. Its like flying a gift now days other than centering of the maneuver  yet retains the same or close to the same k factor as many years past... Food for thought...
> >>
> >> Once again the current proposed pattern needs fixed or the numbers will dwindle by at least one nxt year.. I can promise that..
> >>
> >>
> >> Gary
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Aug 18, 2014, at 11:34 PM, John Gayer via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Advanced and Masters are not our entry classes and should not affect future participation. Those new to pattern should begin in either Sportsman or Intermediate depending on skill level. When a flyer feels he is ready to move up, he will try flying the next class in practice. If it is too difficult to even see a way to fly that sequence reasonably, then that pilot was not ready to move up and should stay in his current class another year (or more). We do not lose people because they stayed in their current class, we lose them because they moved up when not ready and find they are outclassed without the vision, coordination, time to practice (or name your reason) to be competitive. Not competitive for winning, just competitive.
> >>> Both Masters and Advanced can, and probably will be, changed next year. Any substantial problems can be addressed then. Many have tested these sequences. All have have flown them successfully, if not always happily. We can go on and on about ugly maneuvers, difficulty levels and dislike of change but that happens every cycle.
> >>>
> >>> Just for comparison here are Advanced and Masters from 20 years ago. Overall both appear somewhat easier than the current sequences we are flying but not a lot. Total KFactors are a bit lower. Also we are flying many of the same maneuvers. I hope you noticed the knife edge top of the cobra in masters. If you go back even further you can find a two roll loop in the days before retracts...
> >>>
> >>> John Gayer
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> <ejceefij.png><eibcgfea.png>
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