[NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation

Wed Mar 13 13:23:36 AKDT 2013

Absolutely, these funds would require accountability and clarity. It would
be best for the funds to be maintained by the SIG in an Ama account.

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:57 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation

+1 from me.  I could easily see requiring an FAI stamp to fly FAI at local
contests.  It would indeed go a long way toward helping us demonstrate
participation, though I think we need to see where that money goes..

Mark Atwood
Paragon Consulting, Inc.  |  President
5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
Phone: 440.684.3101 x102  |  Direct: 440-229-2502
Fax: 440.684.3102
mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com>  |
www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com/>

On Mar 13, 2013, at 4:47 PM, "Michael S. Harrison"
<drmikedds at sbcglobal.net<mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net>> wrote:

My thoughts on this would be to make this the responsibility of the USA/FAI
community.  It would probably require the blessing of AMA but  a way to do
this is to require the FAI stamp to fly any AMA sanctioned competition with
FAI as one of the events.  At the Nats require a $50 fee to fly semis and
beyond.  Typically, anyone that flies well enough to make the semis is a
committed competitor and is willing and typically understands the need to
charge for the privilege of flying at that level.  This would also resolve
the issue of number of flyers committed to the FAI program.

Understandably, because AMA is overwhelmed by non competition hobbyists and
FAI really doesn't earnestly seek our input and the USA spends far more than
anyone else to support FAI, the powers at AMA have little interest is paying
big bucks for F3A, particularly since the competitors will not support its
own program.  It is sad that many competitors that have more than enough
money will make no real effort or even avoid the chance to help in some way.
Therefore, the typical solution would be to make financial needs be met by
fees of some sort.

If I were a non FAI competitor, and I was at one time, I would be more than
happy to see NSRCA support the FAI program.

In my view it is an across the board issue.

regards

Mike

From:
nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lis
ts.nsrca.org>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion-bounces at l
ists.nsrca.org>] On Behalf Of Keith Hoard
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:58 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation

Or just charge the lower class guys more and tell them "Its for your own
good" . . .

From: Joe Lachowski<mailto:jlachow at hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:29 PM
To: NSRCA Discussion List<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation

Hmmm!. Sounds like another justification for going totally webbased for the
Kfactor. Surely, the mailing saved could cover all or part of the cost?

> From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com<mailto:atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
> To:
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:02:49 -0400
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>
> Correct, it's $50.
>
> But we're making this more than it needs to be. We're talking about
$1000/annually that's needed to send a rep to the CIAM meetings. With our
membership that's less than a $1 a person. This should almost be part of our
charter. I realize that AMA pattern has a life outside of FAI, but AMA
Pattern was born from FAI (not the other way around) and will truly lose
it's direction without it. Maybe not immediately, but over time.
>
> Participation in the FAI program is necessary to continue to get AMA
funding to help support our USA team.something that I do think the AMA
should, and will continue to do provided that there is adequate support.
It's almost a separate issue.
>
> -M
> Mark Atwood
> Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President
> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Direct: 440-229-2502
> Fax: 440.684.3102
>
mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark.
atwood at paragon-inc.com> |
www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com><http://www.paragon-inc.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 13, 2013, at 10:25 AM, Jon Lowe
<jonlowe at aol.com<mailto:jonlowe at aol.com><mailto:jonlowe at aol.com>> wrote:
>
> The current cost of the FAI stamp is $50. Just call Colleen Pierce at AMA
and she will sign you up!!
> Jon
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon Lowe
<jonlowe at aol.com<mailto:jonlowe at aol.com><mailto:jonlowe at aol.com>>
> To: nsrca-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><m
ailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
> Sent: Wed, Mar 13, 2013 9:18 am
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>
> John,
> The last F3A team trial cost $170 per flier which I beleive was over and
above Nats entry. The number of pilots that sign up for the trial is what
AMA uses as part of the formula to see what teams they will support for
World Championships. They also use performance at previous WC's in the
formula. Mark Atwood has the details. I beleive Mark told me that if Andrew
had not made the podium at the last WC, that we would have fallen below the
threshold for AMA support for this year's WC.
>
> I will check with AMA on the cost of the FAI stamp.
> Jon
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Fuqua
<johnfuqua at embarqmail.com<mailto:johnfuqua at embarqmail.com><mailto:johnfuqua@
embarqmail.com>>
> To: 'General pattern discussion'
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><m
ailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
> Sent: Tue, Mar 12, 2013 8:42 pm
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>
>
> If it's a numbers thing what if everybody just paid the for an FAI stamp.
I
> used to buy one long ago when I flew in Team selection events. I do not
> think it is very expensive. Anybody know what it the currently costs?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lis
ts.nsrca.org><mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion-bounces at l
ists.nsrca.org><mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discu
ssion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>?>] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 7:12 PM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation
>
> We can run off and vilify the AMA over this, but I think some of the
reality
> is that there are soooooo many niche's in the FAI program that trying to
> determine how to completely support them all is financially impractical in
> this day and age. Yes, we're one of the pillars, but our total
> participation at the FAI level is actually VERY low. I think a total of 10
> people this past cycle. That in itself is a problem, but regardless, it
> become difficult for the AMA to support sending a rep for every FAI
program
> that has 10 paying participants. I just checked.. .we had 11 participants
> in 2012 and 11 in 2010. Control line scale had about the same.
>
> We should strongly consider trying to work this into the NSRCA budget in
> some way. It's important to us collectively, regardless of the total
number
> that actually pay for an FAI stamp. They lead the program that we follow,
> and establish all the rules for our international competitions. It's
> important that we (the NSRCA) have a voice at the table.
>
> Just my $0.02
>
>
> Mark Atwood
> Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President
> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Direct: 440-229-2502
> Fax: 440.684.3102
>
mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark.
atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<http://paragon-in
c.com><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<http://paragon-inc.com>?>> |
>
www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com><http://www.paragon-inc.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 12, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Derek Koopowitz
>
<derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopo
witz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<http://gmail.com><mailto:der
ekkoopowitz at gmail.com<http://gmail.com>?>>> wrote:
>
> Airfare alone is about $1100 and then there is food/accommodations for 3
> nights, train fare from Zurich to Lausanne and back... I would estimate at
> least another $800 everything else.
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Peter Vogel
>
<vogel.peter at gmail.com<mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com><mailto:vogel.peter at gmai
l.com><mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com<http://gmail.com><mailto:vogel.peter at gma
il.com<http://gmail.com>?>>> wrote:
> How much would you need?
>
> And Ron, I think that's exactly what it is. It's part of why I voted
> against Bob Brown, he said as much in his campaign statement...
>
> Peter+
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Derek Koopowitz
>
<derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopo
witz at gmail.com><mailto:derekkoopowitz at gmail.com<http://gmail.com><mailto:der
ekkoopowitz at gmail.com<http://gmail.com>?>>> wrote:
> That is true, Bill. I was sent a letter by the AMA stating that travel
> expenses would not be paid for and that I could attend if I paid for
myself
> or the NSRCA paid for me to attend.
>
> I can only believe that this will only further isolate us (F3A) from the
> rest of the world. Yes, I'm still the rep to CIAM but face-to-face
meetings
> accomplish so much more than through email. I had built up a great
> relationship with the movers/shakers in F3A and now I feel that it will be
> in jeopardy.
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Bill's Email
>
<silentav8r at cox.net<mailto:silentav8r at cox.net><mailto:silentav8r at cox.net><ma
ilto:silentav8r at cox.net<http://cox.net><mailto:silentav8r at cox.net<http://cox
.net>?>>> wrote:
> Thought you folks might be interested what is going on in the soaring side
> of the FAI world. A proposal to condense several events, soaring being one
> of them, has been submitted. The soaring community in the US is taking
> notice that AMA is not funding the individual area reps to go to the
> meeting, so the soaring folks have decided to try to fund it themselves.
> Here's the thread:
>
> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24403409&postcount=1
>
> This is the document that has gotten them to do this:
>
>
http://lomcovak.cz/wp_eng/f3b/2013/03/f3b-world-championship-in-future-cance
> led/
>
> F3A is mentioned, but only in that it should remain as is. F3M is talked
> about as a target for elimination. Again, this is a proposal submitted for
> consideration.
>
> Thought you might find it interesting. I recall reading that our US F3A
CIAM
> rep was also told by AMA that they would not fund his travel.
>
> Bill in OC
>
>
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