[NSRCA-discussion] Team Selection - was 2013 NATS dates

Budd Engineering jerry at buddengineering.com
Fri Mar 1 12:19:46 AKST 2013 

+5

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 1, 2013, at 1:16 PM, <shinden1 at cox.net> wrote:

> I don't think the "reward" of winning the Nats should be a Team slot.
> The Nat's and the Team selection are really two different events.
> Even though the last few selections have been merged, let's not loose sight of the goal.
> 
> The goal is to pick the best Team of fliers to represent the USA in a World Championships.
> You cannot participate in the team selection contest in any other country ( its that country's team selection)
> 
> The game of F3A has been elevated to a much higher level than just 10 years ago.
> The US likes to be inclusive for the numbers of participation, this blurs the lines on the goals,
> And the effort it take to compete at the top levels, 
> It's no longer a can rolling contest :) or who shows up contest.
> AMA and FAI are two different levels of effort, time and reward and should stay this way.
> I know more than most the Cost of team contest and understand the reasons Behind the Merge. But lets
> Not take a bad situation and make it worse.
> 
> Serious effort, planning , practice Design development. Testing, and travel ,exposer ,is required to win on a World stage,
> The same effort should be given to select the players that represent us. 
> 
> I think for the most part we have excellent participation of the top fliers in our local and national events 
> Although the thought of the Nats champ having a slot sounds nice, it's just not feasible at professional level competition
> Just like our old selection system was not practical ,demanding participation in local event to be eligible to enter the team selection. It sounds like a good Idea 
> Just not really so, fake contest were done for the points , and did not raise participation. 
> 
> I do think a centrally located event, or even a traveling Event  ,would be nice and would elevate attendance and participation 
> Having someone to do it well,, whole other story.
> 
> Bryan
> ---- "Michael S. Harrison" <drmikedds at sbcglobal.net> wrote: 
>> I like this
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dave Burton
>> Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 11:58 AM
>> To: 'General pattern discussion'
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Team Selection - was 2013 NATS dates
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> My opinion is that with nearly a year's difference between Nats/trials and
>> WC it makes no difference if a foreign competitor finishes ahead of team
>> members. Our guys just need to fly better if a foreign pilot wins!
>> 
>> It's always been my opinion that our Nats winner should be on the team. When
>> we had separate team trials that wasn't always the case. I would advocate
>> that the Nats FAI winner get a team  slot even if there were a separate
>> trial.  It would make sure our top guys wouldn't skip the Nats probably, and
>> reward our National Champion even if the "Top Guys" decided to skip the
>> Nats.
>> 
>> Dave Burton
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dave Lockhart
>> Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 12:34 PM
>> To: 'General pattern discussion'
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Team Selection - was 2013 NATS dates
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> John,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Just my opinion -
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I believe there needs to be a distinction between US Team Trials and US
>> NATs.  Foreign competitors should not be competing in the US Team Trials.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I believe there is also a distinction between a country looking to break
>> into the top 10, versus one that is top ten.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> While I agree that competing with a top pilot is the best way to see their
>> level and style, for the US (top ten), I don't think it is a good thing to
>> have a published result that includes a foreign pilot besting the US
>> Team..it sets tone and precedence..and could put the US Team in a position
>> of being an underdog, competing from behind.  Granted, if judging at the WC
>> was based solely on flight performance, this aspect would have little if any
>> relevance.  My suggested format for NATs/Trials does not preclude foreign
>> competitors, only limits them (from flying unknowns) in Team Trial years.
>> We (the US) are in the top ten, and in this day and age of internet and
>> video, we know what top ten flying looks like, and quite honestly, I don't
>> think it is inappropriate to suggest we should have the goals of setting the
>> bar/style.  Recruiting a European or Asian judge to judge the NATs; great
>> idea. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> For a country outside the top ten, it makes all the sense in the world to
>> import top ten talent (pilots or judges) for exactly the reasons you
>> state..and many countries have done this, either by importing pilots/judges,
>> or by travelling to the US NATs or EC.  For countries outside the top 10,
>> there is nothing to be lost, only gained, by mixing it up with top ten
>> talent.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dave L
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Gayer
>> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 12:45 PM
>> To: General pattern discussion
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Team Selection - was 2013 NATS dates
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dave,
>> Why is it bad if a foreign competitor comes to our Nats and beats one or all
>> of our team members? We are somewhat isolated over here and do not get to
>> see many of the top world competitors. It would do the team good to find out
>> where the bar is and how much improvement is required to excel at the
>> worlds. I believe the team would consider being beaten at the trials as a
>> challenge to improve and not a demoralizing influence.
>> The Australians used to pay airfare for top foreign competitors to come down
>> under and compete in the Kraft Masters(International meet)  for the sole
>> purpose of finding out where the bar was and what top ten flying looked
>> like. Rather than exclude foreign influences at the team trials, it would be
>> a much better plan to invite(pay) a European judge or two to come over to
>> judge the finals. That would give a good reference for the team to use in
>> preparation. 
>> John
>> 
>> On 2/27/2013 5:47 PM, Dave Lockhart wrote:
>> 
>> Resistance to the combining of the two was for many reasons.many of which
>> are moot now that the NATs and Team Trials are combined.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I've said it a million times, and offered the suggestion just as many times.
>> It absolutely would be bad for a foreign competitor to best a US Team Member
>> at the US Team Trials.  The answer is simple enough, IMHO.  In Team Trial
>> years, the NATs are over after the semifinals (4 rounds of P, 2 rounds of
>> F), and the Team Trials will continue with 2F and 2 Unknown to pick the US
>> Team Members.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Van
>> Putte
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 7:26 PM
>> To: General pattern discussion
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Team Selection - was 2013 NATS dates
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The irony here is that we tried to have a joint Nats/Team Selection much
>> earlier and there was significant resistance to doing it.  Comments were
>> made that "Foreign competitors can compete in the Nats and might beat one or
>> more of the USA F3A team members and that would be bad".
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Ron
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 6:11 PM, Jon Lowe wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the last separate team selection we
>> had was at Triple Tree in SC just after the turn of the century.  I know of
>> nothing that prevents us from having a separate team trial, but that would
>> involve yet another contest to organize, and more cost.  Frankly, I
>> personally prefer having the team trials at the Nats, because we get all of
>> the top FAI fliers to attend at least once every two years.  Given the
>> proximity of this years Nats to the dates of this years WC, we will likely
>> not see our team members at the Nats, and they will be missed.
>> 
>> Jon
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ronald Van Putte <vanputter at gmail.com>
>> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 5:42 pm
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Team Selection - was 2013 NATS dates
>> 
>> I remember being CD of the F3A Team Selection contest back in 1991 at Duke
>> Field 
>> (part of Eglin AFB, FL).  There were 54 F3A competitors.  
>> 
>> It was the last time Rhett Miller competed in an F3A Team Selection.  He
>> used an 
>> airplane borrowed from Ron Chidgey.
>> 
>> Ron
>> 
>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Dave Burton wrote:
>> 
>>> I seem to remember back a lot of years ago the FAI Team Selection stamp
>> fee
>>> was $10.00 and lots of guys (myself included) paid it just to be part of
>>> helping. At $170.00 I wouldn't pay it. I could be wrong about the amount,
>>> and the pool of FAI flyers is much smaller so perhaps there wouldn't be
>> muh
>>> money generater if it was significantly lower.
>>> Dave 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?> ] On Behalf Of Atwood,
>> Mark
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 6:26 PM
>>> To: General pattern discussion
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Team Selection - was 2013 NATS dates
>>> 
>>> Hey Keith,
>>> 
>>> I appreciate the comment actually as I sort of feel the same way.  I've
>> made
>>> sure that EVERYONE on the team is working actively in the fund raising
>>> (Trading effort and labor for money) and at the end, all will very likely
>>> still be paying for a portion of their trip.   Talking with Jason and
>>> Andrew, each WC has cost them $3000-$5000 out of pocket to go, over and
>>> above what was donated.    We're working hard to reduce that number but
>> it's
>>> a reality.
>>> 
>>> And your correct, no one should expect a free trip.  We're just working to
>>> help these guys represent us in our chosen hobby as the best we have.  
>>> 
>>> Support is appreciated.not expected.  
>>> 
>>> Mark Atwood
>>> Paragon Consulting, Inc.  |  President
>>> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124 
>>> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102  |  Direct: 440-229-2502 
>>> Fax: 440.684.3102
>>> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com  |  www.paragon-inc.com
>> <http://www.paragon-inc.com/> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 5:58 PM, Keith Hoard <klhoard at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What makes you think that us lower class guys care to "support" the FAI
>>> team?  Some of you make it sound like we owe y'all a free trip.
>>> 
>>> Keith Hoard
>>> Collierville, TN
>>> 
>>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 16:28, "Chuck Hochhalter" <cahochhalter at yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> We could add 5 bucks to every local contest entry and donate that to FAI.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 4:25 PM, Archie Stafford <astafford at md.metrocast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Mark,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Another option is to adjust the entry fee for all classes. Maybe 25.00
>>> per and all of that goes to the team. Would be easy enough to do.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Arch
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy ST III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -------- Original message --------
>>>>> From: "Atwood, Mark" <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
>>>>> Date:
>>>>> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Team Selection - was 2013 NATS dates
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> As a side to that.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We need to have a serious discussion about the team selection and our
>>> "Official" participation levels.  FAI GUYS!!!!  We NEED many more of you
>> to
>>> sign up for the team selection event (be it part of the Nats or otherwise
>> in
>>> 2014) if we're going to continue to get the same level of funding that we
>>> get now from the AMA.   To do that, I think we need to drastically lower
>> the
>>> price tag.  The price tag ($170) is reminiscent of holding a separate
>> event
>>> and paying for the judges to come for 4 days and judge.   That's no longer
>>> an expense burden that the selection contest bears.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The AMA has made "participation" a critical point factor in determining
>>> the level of financial support that each team receives.   We don't get a
>> lot
>>> of money, but they do pay for the World Championship entry fees ($900
>>> /pilot, $500 /team manager, $150 /caller ) which is a lot, and they help
>>> with some of the hotel bill.  It's a fraction of what we need, but it's
>>> still a big help.  For this year's WC's it's about $7800 of the $60K we'll
>>> need.  But if we don't increase our participation, we'll lose it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This past Nats we had 30+ FAI flyers. but less than 10 participated in
>>> the team trial..meaning they paid the entry fee.  Admittedly, I was one
>> who
>>> did not.  I finished 11th, but that's a far cry from top 3, so spending
>> $170
>>> "Just to participate" didn't seem like a good value proposition.  But if
>> we
>>> can lower the cost to say $30, or something reasonable, then I would
>>> participate simply to support the team (that's where the entry fee money
>>> goes by the way.all of it) especially knowing that it will motivate the
>> AMA
>>> to continue their funding.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'll hammer this home more next year when it's more relevant, but
>> thought
>>> I'd chime in now :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Please feel free to return to your regularly scheduled conversation.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mark Atwood
>>>>> Paragon Consulting, Inc.  |  President
>>>>> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
>>>>> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102  |  Direct: 440-229-2502
>>>>> Fax: 440.684.3102
>>>>> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com
>> <mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com?> >  |
>>> www.paragon-inc.com
>> <http://www.paragon-inc.com%3chttp:/www.paragon-inc.com/>
>> <http://www.paragon-inc.com/>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Budd Engineering
>>> <jerry at buddengineering.com<mailto:jerry at buddengineering.com
>> <mailto:jerry at buddengineering.com?> >> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Or a LOT easier because it's gotten so small.  It's occurred to some of
>>> us over the past several years that you could hold the US Team Trials at a
>>> good local field and still have an as good, if not better, team selection
>>> contest as we do now.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Incidentally, when I mentioned this to a couple of the AMA people at the
>>> show in Ontario last month it was made quite clear that the "powers that
>> be"
>>> in AMA have absolutely no interest in allowing the Team Selection contest
>> to
>>> ever be held anywhere but at the AMA site in Muncie.  Go Figure.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -0
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jerry
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 10:59 AM, "Dave Burton"
>>> <burtona at atmc.net<mailto:burtona at atmc.net <mailto:burtona at atmc.net?> >>
>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Amen +2
>>>>> 
>>>>> As pattern participation continues to shrink the possibility of having
>>> the resources to hold the Nats at a different venue gets even more
>>> difficult.
>>>>> Dave
>>>>> 
>>>>> From:
>>> 
>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lis
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lis?> 
>>> ts.nsrca.org> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?> ] On Behalf Of
>>> John Fuqua
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 10:54 AM
>>>>> To: 'General pattern discussion'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>>>>> 
>>>>> AMEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>>> 
>>>>> From:
>>> 
>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lis
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lis?> 
>>> ts.nsrca.org> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?> ] On Behalf Of
>>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:43 AM
>>>>> To: General pattern discussion
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>>>>> 
>>>>> +1
>>>>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone
>>>>> 
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: "mike mueller" <mups1953 at yahoo.com<mailto:mups1953 at yahoo.com
>> <mailto:mups1953 at yahoo.com?> >>
>>>>> To: "Archie Stafford"
>>> <astafford at md.metrocast.net<mailto:astafford at md.metrocast.net
>> <mailto:astafford at md.metrocast.net?> >>, "General
>>> pattern discussion"
>>> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org?> >>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:36:31 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>>>>> OK I want to play devil's advocate.
>>>>> What is all this talk about an off site Nats about?
>>>>> Is it that we need to move it around to allow new people to participate?
>>> Or is it the changes to the schedule that basically takes away a half day
>> of
>>> practice?
>>>>> In my opinion it's not that big of a deal. Moving the Nats off site
>> would
>>> be a huge endeavor. Who has the resources, energy and financial where with
>>> all to achieve this?
>>>>> I doubt that we could pull it off. Unless a lot of effort was put forth
>>> to make it happen.
>>>>> I think the AMA has supported us in a decent manner.
>>>>> Also look at the current BOD of the AMA and you'll see that pattern is
>>> well represented with more than our share. We also have Muncie employess
>> who
>>> are pattern fliers. We have friends in high places and I think we're doing
>>> pretty well.
>>>>> I'm luck enough to go to the Muncie facility for 3 contests every year.
>>> I'm amazed at the support we get from the AMA staff every time we go
>> there.
>>>>> Things could be a lot worse. Thanks, Mike Mueller
>>>>> 
>>>>> --- On Mon, 2/25/13, Archie Stafford
>>> <astafford at md.metrocast.net<mailto:astafford at md.metrocast.net
>> <mailto:astafford at md.metrocast.net?> >> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Archie Stafford
>>> <astafford at md.metrocast.net<mailto:astafford at md.metrocast.net
>> <mailto:astafford at md.metrocast.net?> >>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>>>>> To:
>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org?> >
>>>>> Date: Monday, February 25, 2013, 8:44 PM
>>>>> IMAC has been warned. They already lost one day from a few years ago.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Also, years ago I would've agreed. Today though the AMA has a lot more
>>> park flyers and sport flyers than any other discipline . Most of my club,
>>> with 86 members now flies smaller electrics. Many of the younger kids
>> would
>>> rather fly foamies than anything. Pattern, IMAC, and scale don't do
>> anything
>>> for them. The younger members are just different. 3D and helis are much
>> more
>>> exciting to them. Times have changed.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Arch
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy ST III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -------- Original message --------
>>>>> From: Ron Hansen <rcpilot at wowway.com<mailto:rcpilot at wowway.com
>> <mailto:rcpilot at wowway.com?> >>
>>>>> Date:
>>>>> To: vicenterc at comcast.net,'General<mailto:vicenterc at comcast.net,'General
>> <mailto:vicenterc at comcast.net,> >
>>> pattern discussion'
>>> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org?> >>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>>>>> 
>>>>> What about IMAC they have less attendance at the NATS than us.  With
>>> their attendance I'm surprised the AMA will even give them a week.  Not
>> that
>>> I'm suggesting they don't deserve a week.  One of the issues I have with
>> the
>>> NATS is that Intermediate and Advanced Pilots and those in MASTERS and FAI
>>> that don't make the cut don't get any more flights than a regular weekend
>>> contest.  Perhaps more would attend if we offered every pilot 12
>> guaranteed
>>> flights.  That would make it more likely that the west coasters would make
>>> the long trip to Muncie.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> No one gets hooked on RC by watching someone fly a park flyer.  You get
>>> hooked by watching someone go crazy with a heli or an IMAC plane or the
>>> graceful flying of a pattern plane or the speed/wow factor of a jet or the
>>> roar of a 4 engine B-17.  These are all endeavors that are not associated
>>> with the typical AMA member.  If the AMA thinks they can survive without
>>> these folks then let them try.  What these groups need to do is stop
>>> supporting the AMA with their articles, photos, etc.  They'll have nothing
>>> to draw the attention of new members.  AMA membership will never be what
>> it
>>> used to be because kids now a day are so much busier than they used to be
>>> and there are so many more thinks competing for their interest.  We need
>> to
>>> find a financially viable solution for both the NSRCA and the AMA not to
>>> mention all the other SIGS. Without the SIGS there would be no AMA.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From:
>>> 
>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lis
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lis?> 
>>> ts.nsrca.org> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?> ] On Behalf Of
>>> vicenterc at comcast.net<mailto:vicenterc at comcast.net
>> <mailto:vicenterc at comcast.net?> >
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 6:20 PM
>>>>> To: General pattern discussion
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Guys it is too early in the week to talk about good drinks.  I got to
>>> work tomorrow.
>>>>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Ronald Van Putte
>>> 
>> <vanputter at gmail.com<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vanputter
>>> @gmail.com>>
>>>>> Sender:
>>> 
>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/
>>> compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 16:57:02
>>>>> To: General pattern
>>> 
>> discussion<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/
>>> mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>>> Reply-To: General pattern discussion
>>> 
>> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose
>>> ?to=nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>>>>> 
>>>>> For those who weren't there, we had several buses take us from the
>>> Tullahoma airport about 12 miles to the Jack Daniels' distillery for the
>>> "picnic".  On the way back, there was a terrible thunderstorm.  When I
>>> mentioned the storm to some attendee the next day, they said, "What
>>> thunderstorm?"
>>>>> 
>>>>> BTW, what did they call that stuff they served?  Was it Lynchburg
>>> Lemonade?  It tasted wonderful and went down so smooth!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ron
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 25, 2013, at 4:48 PM, John Fuqua wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> At least that part you remember
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From:
>>> 
>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/
>>> compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>>> 
>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org%3Chttp://us.mc1247.mail.yah
>> oo?> <http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo
>>> .com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] On Behalf Of
>>> Ronald Van
>>>>>> Putte
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 4:47 PM
>>>>>> To: General pattern discussion
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The bus ride back from the Jack Daniel's distillery was memorable!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ron
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2013, at 4:12 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Scott,  I think Ron is correct on this one (biting my tongue as I
>> voice
>>>>>> that!)   Back then the NSRCA had no input what so ever.  Obviously
>>> enough
>>>>>> was wrong with the way the AMA ran the event to create a complete
>>> boycott of
>>>>>> the nationals in lieu of the NPAC.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Peter, has the nats every
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
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>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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