[NSRCA-discussion] Team Selection - was 2013 NATS dates

Dave Burton burtona at atmc.net
Wed Feb 27 14:35:18 AKST 2013 

I seem to remember back a lot of years ago the FAI Team Selection stamp fee
was $10.00 and lots of guys (myself included) paid it just to be part of
helping. At $170.00 I wouldn't pay it. I could be wrong about the amount,
and the pool of FAI flyers is much smaller so perhaps there wouldn't be muh
money generater if it was significantly lower.
Dave 

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 6:26 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Team Selection - was 2013 NATS dates

Hey Keith,

I appreciate the comment actually as I sort of feel the same way.  I've made
sure that EVERYONE on the team is working actively in the fund raising
(Trading effort and labor for money) and at the end, all will very likely
still be paying for a portion of their trip.   Talking with Jason and
Andrew, each WC has cost them $3000-$5000 out of pocket to go, over and
above what was donated.    We're working hard to reduce that number but it's
a reality.

And your correct, no one should expect a free trip.  We're just working to
help these guys represent us in our chosen hobby as the best we have.  

Support is appreciated.not expected.  

Mark Atwood
Paragon Consulting, Inc.  |  President
5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124 
Phone: 440.684.3101 x102  |  Direct: 440-229-2502 
Fax: 440.684.3102
mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com  |  www.paragon-inc.com





On Feb 27, 2013, at 5:58 PM, Keith Hoard <klhoard at hotmail.com> wrote:

What makes you think that us lower class guys care to "support" the FAI
team?  Some of you make it sound like we owe y'all a free trip.

Keith Hoard
Collierville, TN

On Feb 27, 2013, at 16:28, "Chuck Hochhalter" <cahochhalter at yahoo.com>
wrote:

> 
> We could add 5 bucks to every local contest entry and donate that to FAI.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Feb 27, 2013, at 4:25 PM, Archie Stafford <astafford at md.metrocast.net>
wrote:
> 
>> Mark,
>> 
>> Another option is to adjust the entry fee for all classes. Maybe 25.00
per and all of that goes to the team. Would be easy enough to do.
>> 
>> Arch
>> 
>> 
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy ST III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>> 
>> 
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: "Atwood, Mark" <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
>> Date:
>> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Team Selection - was 2013 NATS dates
>> 
>> 
>> As a side to that.
>> 
>> We need to have a serious discussion about the team selection and our
"Official" participation levels.  FAI GUYS!!!!  We NEED many more of you to
sign up for the team selection event (be it part of the Nats or otherwise in
2014) if we're going to continue to get the same level of funding that we
get now from the AMA.   To do that, I think we need to drastically lower the
price tag.  The price tag ($170) is reminiscent of holding a separate event
and paying for the judges to come for 4 days and judge.   That's no longer
an expense burden that the selection contest bears.
>> 
>> The AMA has made "participation" a critical point factor in determining
the level of financial support that each team receives.   We don't get a lot
of money, but they do pay for the World Championship entry fees ($900
/pilot, $500 /team manager, $150 /caller ) which is a lot, and they help
with some of the hotel bill.  It's a fraction of what we need, but it's
still a big help.  For this year's WC's it's about $7800 of the $60K we'll
need.  But if we don't increase our participation, we'll lose it.
>> 
>> This past Nats we had 30+ FAI flyers. but less than 10 participated in
the team trial..meaning they paid the entry fee.  Admittedly, I was one who
did not.  I finished 11th, but that's a far cry from top 3, so spending $170
"Just to participate" didn't seem like a good value proposition.  But if we
can lower the cost to say $30, or something reasonable, then I would
participate simply to support the team (that's where the entry fee money
goes by the way.all of it) especially knowing that it will motivate the AMA
to continue their funding.
>> 
>> I'll hammer this home more next year when it's more relevant, but thought
I'd chime in now :)
>> 
>> Please feel free to return to your regularly scheduled conversation.
>> 
>> 
>> Mark Atwood
>> Paragon Consulting, Inc.  |  President
>> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
>> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102  |  Direct: 440-229-2502
>> Fax: 440.684.3102
>> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com>  |
www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com/>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Budd Engineering
<jerry at buddengineering.com<mailto:jerry at buddengineering.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Or a LOT easier because it's gotten so small.  It's occurred to some of
us over the past several years that you could hold the US Team Trials at a
good local field and still have an as good, if not better, team selection
contest as we do now.
>> 
>> Incidentally, when I mentioned this to a couple of the AMA people at the
show in Ontario last month it was made quite clear that the "powers that be"
in AMA have absolutely no interest in allowing the Team Selection contest to
ever be held anywhere but at the AMA site in Muncie.  Go Figure.
>> 
>> -0
>> 
>> Jerry
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 10:59 AM, "Dave Burton"
<burtona at atmc.net<mailto:burtona at atmc.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> Amen +2
>> 
>> As pattern participation continues to shrink the possibility of having
the resources to hold the Nats at a different venue gets even more
difficult.
>> Dave
>> 
>> From:
nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lis
ts.nsrca.org> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
John Fuqua
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 10:54 AM
>> To: 'General pattern discussion'
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> 
>> AMEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> 
>> From:
nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lis
ts.nsrca.org> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
Vicente "Vince" Bortone
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:43 AM
>> To: General pattern discussion
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> 
>> +1
>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: "mike mueller" <mups1953 at yahoo.com<mailto:mups1953 at yahoo.com>>
>> To: "Archie Stafford"
<astafford at md.metrocast.net<mailto:astafford at md.metrocast.net>>, "General
pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:36:31 AM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> OK I want to play devil's advocate.
>> What is all this talk about an off site Nats about?
>> Is it that we need to move it around to allow new people to participate?
Or is it the changes to the schedule that basically takes away a half day of
practice?
>> In my opinion it's not that big of a deal. Moving the Nats off site would
be a huge endeavor. Who has the resources, energy and financial where with
all to achieve this?
>> I doubt that we could pull it off. Unless a lot of effort was put forth
to make it happen.
>> I think the AMA has supported us in a decent manner.
>> Also look at the current BOD of the AMA and you'll see that pattern is
well represented with more than our share. We also have Muncie employess who
are pattern fliers. We have friends in high places and I think we're doing
pretty well.
>> I'm luck enough to go to the Muncie facility for 3 contests every year.
I'm amazed at the support we get from the AMA staff every time we go there.
>> Things could be a lot worse. Thanks, Mike Mueller
>> 
>> --- On Mon, 2/25/13, Archie Stafford
<astafford at md.metrocast.net<mailto:astafford at md.metrocast.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> From: Archie Stafford
<astafford at md.metrocast.net<mailto:astafford at md.metrocast.net>>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> To:
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Date: Monday, February 25, 2013, 8:44 PM
>> IMAC has been warned. They already lost one day from a few years ago.
>> 
>> Also, years ago I would've agreed. Today though the AMA has a lot more
park flyers and sport flyers than any other discipline . Most of my club,
with 86 members now flies smaller electrics. Many of the younger kids would
rather fly foamies than anything. Pattern, IMAC, and scale don't do anything
for them. The younger members are just different. 3D and helis are much more
exciting to them. Times have changed.
>> 
>> Arch
>> 
>> 
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy ST III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>> 
>> 
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Ron Hansen <rcpilot at wowway.com<mailto:rcpilot at wowway.com>>
>> Date:
>> To: vicenterc at comcast.net,'General<mailto:vicenterc at comcast.net,'General>
pattern discussion'
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> 
>> What about IMAC they have less attendance at the NATS than us.  With
their attendance I'm surprised the AMA will even give them a week.  Not that
I'm suggesting they don't deserve a week.  One of the issues I have with the
NATS is that Intermediate and Advanced Pilots and those in MASTERS and FAI
that don't make the cut don't get any more flights than a regular weekend
contest.  Perhaps more would attend if we offered every pilot 12 guaranteed
flights.  That would make it more likely that the west coasters would make
the long trip to Muncie.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> No one gets hooked on RC by watching someone fly a park flyer.  You get
hooked by watching someone go crazy with a heli or an IMAC plane or the
graceful flying of a pattern plane or the speed/wow factor of a jet or the
roar of a 4 engine B-17.  These are all endeavors that are not associated
with the typical AMA member.  If the AMA thinks they can survive without
these folks then let them try.  What these groups need to do is stop
supporting the AMA with their articles, photos, etc.  They'll have nothing
to draw the attention of new members.  AMA membership will never be what it
used to be because kids now a day are so much busier than they used to be
and there are so many more thinks competing for their interest.  We need to
find a financially viable solution for both the NSRCA and the AMA not to
mention all the other SIGS. Without the SIGS there would be no AMA.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From:
nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lis
ts.nsrca.org> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
vicenterc at comcast.net<mailto:vicenterc at comcast.net>
>> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 6:20 PM
>> To: General pattern discussion
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Guys it is too early in the week to talk about good drinks.  I got to
work tomorrow.
>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ronald Van Putte
<vanputter at gmail.com<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vanputter
@gmail.com>>
>> Sender:
nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/
compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 16:57:02
>> To: General pattern
discussion<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/
mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>> Reply-To: General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose
?to=nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> 
>> For those who weren't there, we had several buses take us from the
Tullahoma airport about 12 miles to the Jack Daniels' distillery for the
"picnic".  On the way back, there was a terrible thunderstorm.  When I
mentioned the storm to some attendee the next day, they said, "What
thunderstorm?"
>> 
>> BTW, what did they call that stuff they served?  Was it Lynchburg
Lemonade?  It tasted wonderful and went down so smooth!
>> 
>> Ron
>> 
>> On Feb 25, 2013, at 4:48 PM, John Fuqua wrote:
>> 
>>> At least that part you remember
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:
nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/
compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo
.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] On Behalf Of
Ronald Van
>>> Putte
>>> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 4:47 PM
>>> To: General pattern discussion
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>>> 
>>> The bus ride back from the Jack Daniel's distillery was memorable!
>>> 
>>> Ron
>>> 
>>> On Feb 25, 2013, at 4:12 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Scott,  I think Ron is correct on this one (biting my tongue as I voice
>>> that!)   Back then the NSRCA had no input what so ever.  Obviously
enough
>>> was wrong with the way the AMA ran the event to create a complete
boycott of
>>> the nationals in lieu of the NPAC.
>>>> 
>>>> Peter, has the nats every
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