[NSRCA-discussion] Team Selection - was 2013 NATS dates

Wed Feb 27 14:26:38 AKST 2013

It wouldn't have to be a tax, it could be a suggested (but optional)
contribution to support our FAI team.  Not a huge amount of extra effort
for a CD to collect and then send a check to the team manager.

Peter+

On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 3:23 PM, Keith Hoard <klhoard at hotmail.com> wrote:

> So you feel the need to impose a tax on the lower classes so three guys
> can travel the world to a pattern contest.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 27, 2013, at 17:17, "Peter Vogel" <vogel.peter at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> In any field of endeavor, it is rare that the people with the talent have
> the money to support their talent on their own, it's true in sports like
> ours and most of the Olympic sports, it's true in the arts, it's been true
> for generations in science and technology (Nicola Tesla, for example, made
> very little money from his inventions that made several others
> multimillionaires (and created several companies that are, today,
> multi-hundred-billion dollar multinational corporations) but was supported
> in his explorations by several benefactors who were willing to take a risk
> on him, some wanted no payback, others hoped the next idea would be world
> changing as his AC generator (a.k.a brushless motor) was and that they'd
> make money back.  Others are patrons of the arts -- I choose to be a patron
> of the Aeronautical arts known as Pattern Flying, I hope that I'll be
> capable of flying advanced before I die, but I see no reason our talented
> athletes like Andrew, Jason, Brett, and Joseph shouldn't get some help from
> those less talented but more fortunate :-)
>
> I suspect most of us flying pattern wouldn't notice a few extra $ on an
> entry fee (about the same cost as a coffee at Starbucks or breakfast at
> mcdonalds) but it could make a big difference to future Team USA F3A
> members!
>
> Peter+
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Keith Hoard <klhoard at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> What makes you think that us lower class guys care to "support" the FAI
>> team?  Some of you make it sound like we owe y'all a free trip.
>>
>> Keith Hoard
>> Collierville, TN
>>
>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 16:28, "Chuck Hochhalter" <cahochhalter at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > We could add 5 bucks to every local contest entry and donate that to
>> FAI.
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> > On Feb 27, 2013, at 4:25 PM, Archie Stafford <
>> astafford at md.metrocast.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Mark,
>> >>
>> >> Another option is to adjust the entry fee for all classes. Maybe 25.00
>> per and all of that goes to the team. Would be easy enough to do.
>> >>
>> >> Arch
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -------- Original message --------
>> >> From: "Atwood, Mark" <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
>> >> Date:
>> >> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> >> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Team Selection - was 2013 NATS dates
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> As a side to that…
>> >>
>> >> We need to have a serious discussion about the team selection and our
>> "Official" participation levels.  FAI GUYS!!!!  We NEED many more of you to
>> sign up for the team selection event (be it part of the Nats or otherwise
>> in 2014) if we're going to continue to get the same level of funding that
>> we get now from the AMA.   To do that, I think we need to drastically lower
>> the price tag.  The price tag ($170) is reminiscent of holding a separate
>> event and paying for the judges to come for 4 days and judge.   That's no
>> longer an expense burden that the selection contest bears.
>> >>
>> >> The AMA has made "participation" a critical point factor in
>> determining the level of financial support that each team receives.   We
>> don't get a lot of money, but they do pay for the World Championship entry
>> fees ($900 /pilot, $500 /team manager, $150 /caller ) which is a lot, and
>> they help with some of the hotel bill.  It's a fraction of what we need,
>> but it's still a big help.  For this year's WC's it's about $7800 of the
>> $60K we'll need.  But if we don't increase our participation, we'll lose it.
>> >>
>> >> This past Nats we had 30+ FAI flyers… but less than 10 participated in
>> the team trial….meaning they paid the entry fee.  Admittedly, I was one who
>> did not.  I finished 11th, but that's a far cry from top 3, so spending
>> $170 "Just to participate" didn't seem like a good value proposition.  But
>> if we can lower the cost to say $30, or something reasonable, then I would
>> participate simply to support the team (that's where the entry fee money
>> goes by the way…all of it) especially knowing that it will motivate the AMA
>> to continue their funding.
>> >>
>> >> I'll hammer this home more next year when it's more relevant, but
>> thought I'd chime in now :)
>> >>
>> >> Please feel free to return to your regularly scheduled conversation.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Mark Atwood
>> >> Paragon Consulting, Inc.  |  President
>> >> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
>> >> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102  |  Direct: 440-229-2502
>> >> Fax: 440.684.3102
>> >> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com>  |
>> www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com/>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Feb 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Budd Engineering <
>> jerry at buddengineering.com<mailto:jerry at buddengineering.com>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Or a LOT easier because it's gotten so small.  It's occurred to some
>> of us over the past several years that you could hold the US Team Trials at
>> a good local field and still have an as good, if not better, team selection
>> contest as we do now.
>> >>
>> >> Incidentally, when I mentioned this to a couple of the AMA people at
>> the show in Ontario last month it was made quite clear that the "powers
>> that be" in AMA have absolutely no interest in allowing the Team Selection
>> contest to ever be held anywhere but at the AMA site in Muncie.  Go Figure.
>> >>
>> >> -0
>> >>
>> >> Jerry
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >> On Feb 27, 2013, at 10:59 AM, "Dave Burton" <burtona at atmc.net<mailto:
>> burtona at atmc.net>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Amen +2
>> >>
>> >> As pattern participation continues to shrink the possibility of having
>> the resources to hold the Nats at a different venue gets even more
>> difficult.
>> >> Dave
>> >>
>> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:
>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> [mailto:
>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Fuqua
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 10:54 AM
>> >> To: 'General pattern discussion'
>> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> >>
>> >> AMEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> >>
>> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:
>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> [mailto:
>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince"
>> Bortone
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:43 AM
>> >> To: General pattern discussion
>> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> >>
>> >> +1
>> >> Vicente "Vince" Bortone
>> >>
>> >> ________________________________
>> >> From: "mike mueller" <mups1953 at yahoo.com<mailto:mups1953 at yahoo.com>>
>> >> To: "Archie Stafford" <astafford at md.metrocast.net<mailto:
>> astafford at md.metrocast.net>>, "General pattern discussion" <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> >>
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:36:31 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> >> OK I want to play devil's advocate.
>> >> What is all this talk about an off site Nats about?
>> >> Is it that we need to move it around to allow new people to
>> participate? Or is it the changes to the schedule that basically takes away
>> a half day of practice?
>> >> In my opinion it's not that big of a deal. Moving the Nats off site
>> would be a huge endeavor. Who has the resources, energy and financial where
>> with all to achieve this?
>> >> I doubt that we could pull it off. Unless a lot of effort was put
>> forth to make it happen.
>> >> I think the AMA has supported us in a decent manner.
>> >> Also look at the current BOD of the AMA and you'll see that pattern is
>> well represented with more than our share. We also have Muncie employess
>> who are pattern fliers. We have friends in high places and I think we're
>> doing pretty well.
>> >> I'm luck enough to go to the Muncie facility for 3 contests every
>> year. I'm amazed at the support we get from the AMA staff every time we go
>> there.
>> >> Things could be a lot worse. Thanks, Mike Mueller
>> >>
>> >> --- On Mon, 2/25/13, Archie Stafford <astafford at md.metrocast.net
>> <mailto:astafford at md.metrocast.net>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> From: Archie Stafford <astafford at md.metrocast.net<mailto:
>> astafford at md.metrocast.net>>
>> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> >> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> >> Date: Monday, February 25, 2013, 8:44 PM
>> >> IMAC has been warned. They already lost one day from a few years ago.
>> >>
>> >> Also, years ago I would've agreed. Today though the AMA has a lot more
>> park flyers and sport flyers than any other discipline . Most of my club,
>>  with 86 members now flies smaller electrics. Many of the younger kids
>> would rather fly foamies than anything. Pattern, IMAC, and scale don't do
>> anything for them. The younger members are just different. 3D and helis are
>> much more exciting to them. Times have changed.
>> >>
>> >> Arch
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -------- Original message --------
>> >> From: Ron Hansen <rcpilot at wowway.com<mailto:rcpilot at wowway.com>>
>> >> Date:
>> >> To: vicenterc at comcast.net,'General<mailto:vicenterc at comcast.net,'General>
>> pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> >>
>> >> What about IMAC they have less attendance at the NATS than us.  With
>> their attendance I’m surprised the AMA will even give them a week.  Not
>> that I’m suggesting they don’t deserve a week.  One of the issues I have
>> with the NATS is that Intermediate and Advanced Pilots and those in MASTERS
>> and FAI that don’t make the cut don’t get any more flights than a regular
>> weekend contest.  Perhaps more would attend if we offered every pilot 12
>> guaranteed flights.  That would make it more likely that the west coasters
>> would make the long trip to Muncie.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> No one gets hooked on RC by watching someone fly a park flyer.  You
>> get hooked by watching someone go crazy with a heli or an IMAC plane or the
>> graceful flying of a pattern plane or the speed/wow factor of a jet or the
>> roar of a 4 engine B-17.  These are all endeavors that are not associated
>> with the typical AMA member.  If the AMA thinks they can survive without
>> these folks then let them try.  What these groups need to do is stop
>> supporting the AMA with their articles, photos, etc.  They’ll have nothing
>> to draw the attention of new members.  AMA membership will never be what it
>> used to be because kids now a day are so much busier than they used to be
>> and there are so many more thinks competing for their interest.  We need to
>> find a financially viable solution for both the NSRCA and the AMA not to
>> mention all the other SIGS. Without the SIGS there would be no AMA.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:
>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> [mailto:
>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
>> vicenterc at comcast.net<mailto:vicenterc at comcast.net>
>> >> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 6:20 PM
>> >> To: General pattern discussion
>> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Guys it is too early in the week to talk about good drinks.  I got to
>> work tomorrow.
>> >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Ronald Van Putte <vanputter at gmail.com<
>> http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vanputter@gmail.com>>
>> >> Sender: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<
>> http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
>> >
>> >> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 16:57:02
>> >> To: General pattern discussion<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<
>> http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
>> >>
>> >> Reply-To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> <
>> http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
>> >>
>> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> >>
>> >> For those who weren't there, we had several buses take us from the
>> Tullahoma airport about 12 miles to the Jack Daniels' distillery for the
>> "picnic".  On the way back, there was a terrible thunderstorm.  When I
>> mentioned the storm to some attendee the next day, they said, "What
>> thunderstorm?"
>> >>
>> >> BTW, what did they call that stuff they served?  Was it Lynchburg
>> Lemonade?  It tasted wonderful and went down so smooth!
>> >>
>> >> Ron
>> >>
>> >> On Feb 25, 2013, at 4:48 PM, John Fuqua wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> At least that part you remember
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<
>> http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
>> >
>> >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<
>> http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org>]
>> On Behalf Of Ronald Van
>> >>> Putte
>> >>> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 4:47 PM
>> >>> To: General pattern discussion
>> >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> >>>
>> >>> The bus ride back from the Jack Daniel's distillery was memorable!
>> >>>
>> >>> Ron
>> >>>
>> >>> On Feb 25, 2013, at 4:12 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Scott,  I think Ron is correct on this one (biting my tongue as I
>> voice
>> >>> that!)   Back then the NSRCA had no input what so ever.  Obviously
>> enough
>> >>> was wrong with the way the AMA ran the event to create a complete
>> boycott of
>> >>> the nationals in lieu of the NPAC.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Peter, has the nats every
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
>
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-- 
Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
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