[NSRCA-discussion] Team Selection - was 2013 NATS dates
Archie Stafford
astafford at md.metrocast.net
Wed Feb 27 13:26:07 AKST 2013
Mark,
Another option is to adjust the entry fee for all classes. Maybe 25.00 per and all of that goes to the team. Would be easy enough to do.
Arch
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: "Atwood, Mark" <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
Date:
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Team Selection - was 2013 NATS dates
As a side to that…
We need to have a serious discussion about the team selection and our "Official" participation levels. FAI GUYS!!!! We NEED many more of you to sign up for the team selection event (be it part of the Nats or otherwise in 2014) if we're going to continue to get the same level of funding that we get now from the AMA. To do that, I think we need to drastically lower the price tag. The price tag ($170) is reminiscent of holding a separate event and paying for the judges to come for 4 days and judge. That's no longer an expense burden that the selection contest bears.
The AMA has made "participation" a critical point factor in determining the level of financial support that each team receives. We don't get a lot of money, but they do pay for the World Championship entry fees ($900 /pilot, $500 /team manager, $150 /caller ) which is a lot, and they help with some of the hotel bill. It's a fraction of what we need, but it's still a big help. For this year's WC's it's about $7800 of the $60K we'll need. But if we don't increase our participation, we'll lose it.
This past Nats we had 30+ FAI flyers… but less than 10 participated in the team trial….meaning they paid the entry fee. Admittedly, I was one who did not. I finished 11th, but that's a far cry from top 3, so spending $170 "Just to participate" didn't seem like a good value proposition. But if we can lower the cost to say $30, or something reasonable, then I would participate simply to support the team (that's where the entry fee money goes by the way…all of it) especially knowing that it will motivate the AMA to continue their funding.
I'll hammer this home more next year when it's more relevant, but thought I'd chime in now :)
Please feel free to return to your regularly scheduled conversation.
Mark Atwood
Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President
5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Direct: 440-229-2502
Fax: 440.684.3102
mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com> | www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com/>
On Feb 27, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Budd Engineering <jerry at buddengineering.com<mailto:jerry at buddengineering.com>> wrote:
Or a LOT easier because it's gotten so small. It's occurred to some of us over the past several years that you could hold the US Team Trials at a good local field and still have an as good, if not better, team selection contest as we do now.
Incidentally, when I mentioned this to a couple of the AMA people at the show in Ontario last month it was made quite clear that the "powers that be" in AMA have absolutely no interest in allowing the Team Selection contest to ever be held anywhere but at the AMA site in Muncie. Go Figure.
-0
Jerry
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 27, 2013, at 10:59 AM, "Dave Burton" <burtona at atmc.net<mailto:burtona at atmc.net>> wrote:
Amen +2
As pattern participation continues to shrink the possibility of having the resources to hold the Nats at a different venue gets even more difficult.
Dave
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Fuqua
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 10:54 AM
To: 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
AMEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" Bortone
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:43 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
+1
Vicente "Vince" Bortone
________________________________
From: "mike mueller" <mups1953 at yahoo.com<mailto:mups1953 at yahoo.com>>
To: "Archie Stafford" <astafford at md.metrocast.net<mailto:astafford at md.metrocast.net>>, "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:36:31 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
OK I want to play devil's advocate.
What is all this talk about an off site Nats about?
Is it that we need to move it around to allow new people to participate? Or is it the changes to the schedule that basically takes away a half day of practice?
In my opinion it's not that big of a deal. Moving the Nats off site would be a huge endeavor. Who has the resources, energy and financial where with all to achieve this?
I doubt that we could pull it off. Unless a lot of effort was put forth to make it happen.
I think the AMA has supported us in a decent manner.
Also look at the current BOD of the AMA and you'll see that pattern is well represented with more than our share. We also have Muncie employess who are pattern fliers. We have friends in high places and I think we're doing pretty well.
I'm luck enough to go to the Muncie facility for 3 contests every year. I'm amazed at the support we get from the AMA staff every time we go there.
Things could be a lot worse. Thanks, Mike Mueller
--- On Mon, 2/25/13, Archie Stafford <astafford at md.metrocast.net<mailto:astafford at md.metrocast.net>> wrote:
From: Archie Stafford <astafford at md.metrocast.net<mailto:astafford at md.metrocast.net>>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Date: Monday, February 25, 2013, 8:44 PM
IMAC has been warned. They already lost one day from a few years ago.
Also, years ago I would've agreed. Today though the AMA has a lot more park flyers and sport flyers than any other discipline . Most of my club, with 86 members now flies smaller electrics. Many of the younger kids would rather fly foamies than anything. Pattern, IMAC, and scale don't do anything for them. The younger members are just different. 3D and helis are much more exciting to them. Times have changed.
Arch
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Ron Hansen <rcpilot at wowway.com<mailto:rcpilot at wowway.com>>
Date:
To: vicenterc at comcast.net,'General<mailto:vicenterc at comcast.net,'General> pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
What about IMAC they have less attendance at the NATS than us. With their attendance I’m surprised the AMA will even give them a week. Not that I’m suggesting they don’t deserve a week. One of the issues I have with the NATS is that Intermediate and Advanced Pilots and those in MASTERS and FAI that don’t make the cut don’t get any more flights than a regular weekend contest. Perhaps more would attend if we offered every pilot 12 guaranteed flights. That would make it more likely that the west coasters would make the long trip to Muncie.
No one gets hooked on RC by watching someone fly a park flyer. You get hooked by watching someone go crazy with a heli or an IMAC plane or the graceful flying of a pattern plane or the speed/wow factor of a jet or the roar of a 4 engine B-17. These are all endeavors that are not associated with the typical AMA member. If the AMA thinks they can survive without these folks then let them try. What these groups need to do is stop supporting the AMA with their articles, photos, etc. They’ll have nothing to draw the attention of new members. AMA membership will never be what it used to be because kids now a day are so much busier than they used to be and there are so many more thinks competing for their interest. We need to find a financially viable solution for both the NSRCA and the AMA not to mention all the other SIGS. Without the SIGS there would be no AMA.
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of vicenterc at comcast.net<mailto:vicenterc at comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 6:20 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
Guys it is too early in the week to talk about good drinks. I got to work tomorrow.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Van Putte <vanputter at gmail.com<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vanputter@gmail.com>>
Sender: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 16:57:02
To: General pattern discussion<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org>>
Reply-To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org>>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
For those who weren't there, we had several buses take us from the Tullahoma airport about 12 miles to the Jack Daniels' distillery for the "picnic". On the way back, there was a terrible thunderstorm. When I mentioned the storm to some attendee the next day, they said, "What thunderstorm?"
BTW, what did they call that stuff they served? Was it Lynchburg Lemonade? It tasted wonderful and went down so smooth!
Ron
On Feb 25, 2013, at 4:48 PM, John Fuqua wrote:
> At least that part you remember
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org>
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org>] On Behalf Of Ronald Van
> Putte
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 4:47 PM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>
> The bus ride back from the Jack Daniel's distillery was memorable!
>
> Ron
>
> On Feb 25, 2013, at 4:12 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote:
>
>> Scott, I think Ron is correct on this one (biting my tongue as I voice
> that!) Back then the NSRCA had no input what so ever. Obviously enough
> was wrong with the way the AMA ran the event to create a complete boycott of
> the nationals in lieu of the NPAC.
>>
>> Peter, has the nats every been in a vacation spot??? Hmmmm.
>> Lawrenceville, IL certainly wasn't, and even the Npac in Tullahoma
>> wasn't exactly family friendly (although I seem to recall a wicked
>> hangover from a very nice tour/picnic at the Jack Daniel's distillary)
>> Mark Atwood Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President
>> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
>> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Direct: 440-229-2502
>> Fax: 440.684.3102
>> mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com><mailto:mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com>> |
>> www.paragon-inc.com<http://www.paragon-inc.com/><http://www.paragon-inc.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 25, 2013, at 4:33 PM, Scott McHarg
> <scmcharg at gmail.com<mailto:scmcharg at gmail.com><mailto:scmcharg at gmail.com<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=scmcharg@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>
>> With all due respect to a very nice guy and a guy very involved with what
> goes on, I do not necessarily agree with your reason being over. The NSRCA
> does not have much say on how it is run at all. I will admit that they, at
> the very least, listen to our concerns now but the AMA runs the show.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Ronald Van Putte
> <vanputter at gmail.com<mailto:vanputter at gmail.com><mailto:vanputter at gmail.com<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vanputter@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>> We had N-PAC because AMA refused to permit NSRCA to have any say on how
> the Nats were run. That reason is over. Now we have to compete for Nats
> time with other SIGs. In my opinion, the best way to do that is to increase
> the number of Nats competitors in R/C Aerobatics.
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> On Feb 25, 2013, at 3:19 PM, Scott McHarg wrote:
>>
>> We also used to have NPAC. Now, we have to do what we can within the
> framework of the AMA and their time restraints. It is very unfortunate.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Charlie Rock
> <charlierock at me.com<mailto:charlierock at me.com><mailto:charlierock at me.com<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=charlierock@me.com>>> wrote:
>> And that is very very sad to hear!!! Charlie
>>
>> "When people are afraid of a government that is - Tyranny; And a
> government that is afraid of the people that is - Liberty."
> Thomas Jefferson
>>
>> On Feb 25, 2013, at 3:12 PM, Archie Stafford
> <astafford at md.metrocast.net<mailto:astafford at md.metrocast.net><mailto:astafford at md.metrocast.net<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=astafford@md.metrocast.net>>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I completely agree Ron but those days are gone. The AMA is no longer
>> focused on competition like it used to be
>>
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy ST III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Ronald Van Putte
>> <vanputter at gmail.com<mailto:vanputter at gmail.com><mailto:vanputter at gmail.com<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vanputter@gmail.com>>>
>> Date:
>> To: General pattern discussion
>> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.
<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org%3cmailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.%0b>>> org>>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>>
>>
>> I know that "suck" and "blow" are opposites, but that situation both
> "sucks" and "blows". We used to have a designated "checkin/practice" day
> and a "rain" day.
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> On Feb 25, 2013, at 2:42 PM, Archie Stafford wrote:
>>
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> The AMA has shortened the total NATS period this year, so you read that
> correct. Fortunately, our actual flying days were not changed. Soaring went
> from 13 days to 6 days this year. In previous years, it was never truly our
> day, but it worked out that way as a day of setup for the workers. We have
> never had a true practice day, but since the sites were free, they were
> available. Sites 1 and 4 may be available, but that remains to be seen.
> Once Pylon is done then we will be able to use the sites. Think of it as
> how the others sites have worked on Saturdays in previous years.
>>
>> Archie
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon 02/25/13 3:31 PM , mike mueller
> mups1953 at yahoo.com<mailto:mups1953 at yahoo.com><mailto:mups1953 at yahoo.com<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mups1953@yahoo.com>> sent:
>>
>> I have a question too.
>> On the AMA site they show RC Pylon still being there on the Sunday the
>> 21st. If that's the case will it stop us from practicing on that day?
>> Thanks, Mike
>>
>> --- On Mon, 2/25/13, Bob Kane wrote:
>>
>> From: Bob Kane
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>> To: "General pattern discussion"
>> Date: Monday, February 25, 2013, 2:23 PM
>>
>> I sent a message on facebook, but here is my quesiton again via "real"
> email . . . .
>>
>> Am I set to work site 1 again this year? I am not going to try and
> compete and work as I did last year, it did not work out very well.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Bob Kane
>> getterflash at yahoo.com<mailto:getterflash at yahoo.com><mailto:getterflash at yahoo.com<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=getterflash@yahoo.com>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Archie Stafford
>> To: General pattern discussion
>> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 11:03 AM
>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates
>>
>> Just settled dates here at the NATS planning meeting. The official dates
> are now set and I want to get it out early.
>>
>> July 21-25.
>> Check-In is July 21.
>> Intermediate & Advanced flying July 22-24 Masters and FAI Prelims July
>> 22-24 Masters & FAI finals July 25
>>
>> Fees are the same as last year.
>> Early entry deadline: June 24
>> Late deadline: July 8
>>
>> Fees will once again double after June 24. Refunds can be issued up to 24
> hours prior to start, minus the AMA part, so if you register early and have
> to change, you can get your NSRCA fees back.
>>
>> Will update with more information later, but wanted to get the dates out
> for planning purposes.
>>
>> Arch
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