[NSRCA-discussion] Executive Board voting

Wed Dec 12 08:47:39 AKST 2012

N-PAC? Is that Nitwits Perpetrating A Contest?<VBG>
 From: vanputter at gmail.com
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 11:31:31 -0600
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Executive Board voting

I, too, have been around long enough to remember life before NSRCA.  In fact, NSRCA was started here in north Florida by some modelers who did not like the way R/C aerobatics was being handled by AMA.  It took two N-PAC events to convince AMA to allow NSRCA to run the R/C aerobatic events as a special interest group.
Ron Van Putte
On Dec 12, 2012, at 11:24 AM, Michael S. Harrison wrote:Jim,I totally agree with all you have said.  NSRCA is critical to our survival.  The only reason there is some contention here is because there are those who care.  If Jon was harse, he has recognized that, so good for him.  It takes a bit of character to try to rectify issues like that.  I also have been around long enough to know how valuable that NSRCA is.  Mike From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J N Hiller
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 11:19 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Executive Board voting I'm not too old to remember what it was like before the NSRCA. If you traveled very far you could find yourself competing in an unfamiliar event.The NSRCA has matured since those early days and contributed greatly to standardized judging, rule proposal screening and national unity. YES the NSRCA has value well beyond the K-Factor. Yes it would be nice to get the rest of the story from the AMA contest board as to why safety related rules were voted down. Maybe I missed it but at this point I can only guess. I could probably ask directly and get a reply but I trust they had a valid reason. I also trust our BOD to lead the NSRCA on my behalf without having to explain, discuss or endlessly argue details in an open forum. Open discussed can be extremely time consuming with limited productivity. There is no making everyone happy especially if their' participation is hit and miss continuously requiring covering old ground. Those of us that wish to be involved in the details can get actively involved. Enough. On to the shop! Jim HillerNSRCA 376. -----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Jon Lowe
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 7:33 AM
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Executive Board voting John,I have never intentionally attacked anyone, either on this forum or on the discussions over on RCU.  I've asked questions, seeking answers.  I tend to be direct in my emails and they may appear to be harsh, probably comes from my background dealing with the military.  I have not accused anyone of having an agenda, nor do I think anyone on the board does.  If you or anyone else thinks that is what I've implied or am implying, I'm sorry. I think after seeing what you said here, seeing the complete NSRCA survey results, and several private emails and phone calls, that there is a general apathy in NSRCA which seems to have its roots in people questioning the relevancy of the organization.  If NSRCA is not relevant and doesn't provide added value to the membership, we can turn the sequences back over to the AMA and disband.  I'd like to see NSRCA viewed as returning far more in value to the membership than the few dollars they invest each year.  A question we all need to constantly ask ourselves is "If someone asks me why I should join the NSRCA, what do I tell them?" The K-Factor is a recurring theme in the survey and people I have talked to in terms of value to the members.  I would like to congratulate Scott McHarg and the rest of the K-Factor crew on the December issue of the K-Factor.  I everyone reading this hasn't looked at it, it has a lot of how-to in it.  Good job! I didn't mean to imply that the AMA competition board should not have been much more transparent during the rules proposal process.  They should have been, and that communication is one thing I'd work on to improve if elected.  I am an advocate of follow-up, follow-up, follow-up.  And if we are going to ask others to be transparent to us, then we need to walk the talk. Again, sorry if I offended anyone.  I was asking questions that I didn't see anyone else asking, and I wanted to know the answers.  I hope the membership will see this continuing discussion as constructive, and offer their thoughts.Jon-----Original Message-----
From: John Gayer <jgghome at comcast.net>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:16 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Executive Board voting[quote]ORIGINAL: jonlowe
Transparency. I think the spilled milk has been discussed enough, from the AMA rules change proposal process by the board, to the bylaws, to the aborted officer election.
[/quote]

I certainly agree that there were processes that could have been improved relative to the bylaw changes and officer election. However to call them aborted and imply in various other posts that the board has a hidden agenda is over the top. Clearly the board could have and should have done a better job on the elections and, for that matter, the treasurer's audit but there was no intent to hoodwink or put one over on the membership. We are nothing but a bunch of volunteers with a love of pattern. When the call went out two years ago, noone else stood up and said "I want to run for office". Various coercions were applied to get Ed Alt to run for President and Scott McHarg to run for Secretary.I will admit to calling Derek and asking if they had found a Treasurer in mid-December. When he said yes, I thanked him and was about to hang up when he said "you". Later that year Ed Alt resigned due to the press of work and Jim Quinn who was then VP reluctantly assumed the reins of president. Good choice or not, there was noone else champing at the bit to take the job and the board gratefully accepted Jim as president. I didn't see anyone jumping up and down to get on the board at that time or, for that matter, now. Kind of wonder where all the current contrarians were then. Jon, I guess you were still recovering from your retirement so that excuses you but there are plenty of others making derogatory comments about the actions of the current board. Where are you when we need help? Apparently looking the other way.  Right now John Bruml has been trying to get out of being the Advertising Manager almost as long as I’ve been on the board. Where are those clamoring to help out? Apparently using their energies to bash those who did throw their hat in.

LOWE>>Oh, and about the Contest Board.  Their process is well documented by the AMA and follows a strict time table.  We all had the opportunity to provide inputs and cross proposals after the initial vote.  We also had the opportunity to talk to the CB members, and I did talk to a couple of them.  The CB members are mostly active members of the pattern community, are well known, and are charted by the AMA, not the NSRCA, to look at rules proposals to benefit all AMA participants, not just NSRCA members. Problems with the NSRCA proposals were hashed out here, and the submitters had the opportunity to fix issues during the cross proposal process.  How much follow-up contact did the NSRCA board initiate with the CB during the process?  Were any cross proposals submitted?<<LOWE Jon, this seems to have provided the impetus for your presidential campaign. I can only say that the NSRCA Rules committee operated openly, if with a late start, and solicited input from the membership on RCU and this list(and outside the membership as well), ran a survey, modified proposals to meet objections and finally submitted proposals to the contest board. More open you cannot get. I find it fascinating that to you, the NSRCA board must be open and direct with its membership(as it should) but when dealing with the contest board we are expected to dig, pry and canvas the board members in an effort to find out how our proposals are doing and what objections might have been raised. Why is the same openness not required in both cases in your mind?? While it is clear in the published process that cross-proposals could be submitted within a window, we had no way of knowing which or what part of our proposals were causing difficulty. There was no contact initiated by the contest board. Adding insult to injury, there was no “report out” published, listing the pro and con votes by district and any  discussed objections. As I have said before, I have no more idea what it takes to get a proposal passed through the CB then I did a year ago before the NSRCA rules committee formed. How do you explain the dichotomy between your views of the contest board and the NSRCA board? Relative to the Nats, it is clear to everyone on the board that the Nats are in the control of the AMA which has been true ever since NPAC went away. We, the board, present a candidate to the AMA, who has always been accepted. After that we lose any control. Although since I’ve been on the board, there have been various problems at the Nats which many blame on the NSRCA not the AMA. Arch has been good about keeping us in the loop but he makes it clear who he reports to.  He and previous EDs and the AMA staff have been great about providing logistic support for the banquet, ice cream social, etc. However there is no question about the ED having two bosses, AMA is it. The NSRCA is responsible for using the funds collected by the AMA on our behalf to purchase the necessary scoring equipment and paying the volunteer staff what we can. This is never enough to even cover their expenses at the Nats much less travel. John GayerNSRCA Treasurer  _______________________________________________NSRCA-discussion mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion_______________________________________________
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