[NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy

Tue Sep 13 12:21:19 AKDT 2011

Or mix the laminating epoxy with microballoons.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 13, 2011, at 14:54, "Phil S." <chuenkan at comcast.net> wrote:

Mike, the laminate layer will not protect the 5-min from heat -- only
sunlight/UV and chemicals -- maybe.  OTOH, you have the testimony of several
who have used the 5-min with no problems.  Why not use 15-min if you have a
question about the 5-min variety???

On 9/13/2011 1:23 PM, Michael S. Harrison wrote:

 Matt,

This is the critidcal info I needed.  100 ‘ deformation is a real concern
since batteries,etc go to well over 100’, sometimes in the order of 140’.
Even sitting in the sun will go to 120 or more.  I believe the double layer,
5min/laminating will work.  It will be stronger and redundant.

Thanks

Mike

*From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [
mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org><nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>]
*On Behalf Of *rcmaster199 at aol.com
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 13, 2011 11:26 AM
*To:* nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
*Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy

Mike,

Deformation temp of 5 minute is usually very low, on order of 100F. I no
longer use 5 minute for anything load bearing.

You are correct on sunlight degradation for the amine cured epoxies (most of
the stuff we use) but the process is fairly slow. Usually don't have to
worry about that as RVP pointed out, unless you are like me and keep your
planes for 8-10 years plus

For much better sunlight protection there are other curing systems (J Greer)
available but these are slow curing and could be counteproductive for your
purposes

MattK

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael S. Harrison <drmikedds at sbcglobal.net><drmikedds at sbcglobal.net>
To: 'General pattern discussion'
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org><nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Tue, Sep 13, 2011 11:52 am
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy

Thanks Ted and others.  This is all helpful, my concern is what I have
witnessed over many years as the heat and fuel ruined the 5 min epoxy.
Since it is electric, fuel is not an issue but there is plenty of concern
about heat.  I don’t know the deformation temp of the epoxy nor the exposure
to normal environment so that is why I was asking.  I am going with the 5
min and doing a thin coating of laminating to have a seal and redundancy.
Sunlight will eventually ruin the epoxies but since it is inside the fuse,
that is not an issue.

Thanks

Mike

*From:* *nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org*<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>[
*mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org*<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?>]
*On Behalf Of *Ted Sander
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 13, 2011 6:54 AM
*To:* 'General pattern discussion'
*Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy

I tend to use whatever the local shop carries – but do lean toward Z-poxy.
The current Pres. Of our local club spent his career formulating adhesives,
so I trust his opinions, and in his view all hobby marketed expoxies are far
stronger and longer lasting than we ever need, so go with price.  That said,
longer curing is stronger than shorter curing (but once you are good enough,
do you really need it stronger?) and using laminating is better than
thinning with alcohol, acetone, or whatever if you need to coat an
area…..(thinning does dramatically reduce strength).

If you are getting into whole plane fabrication with epoxies
(glass/composite construction, etc.) then you need to do some more research
for thin film strengths, viscosity, etc. , especially since weight becomes a
big factor.  But for general gluing of firewalls, wing halves, or the like –
go with what you can easily get/afford.

*From:* *nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org*<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>[
*mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org*<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?>]
*On Behalf Of *Michael S. Harrison
*Sent:* Monday, September 12, 2011 2:31 PM
*To:* 'General pattern discussion'
*Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy

Thanks,

Ted what was the brand you used?

Mike

*From:* *nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org*<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>[
*mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org*<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?>]
*On Behalf Of *Ted Sander
*Sent:* Monday, September 12, 2011 1:51 PM
*To:* General pattern discussion
*Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy

You'd just be adding weight.  I have 20 yr old planes where the 5 min is
still perfect.  Enough heat to be a problem with the epoxy will be a much
bigger problem for everything else in the plane!

Ted Sander

On Sep 12, 2011, at 11:57 AM, "Michael S. Harrison" <*
drmikedds at sbcglobal.net* <drmikedds at sbcglobal.net>> wrote:

  Thanks Dwane,

Sorry, I was very ambiguous in my search for answers.  I am referring to the
cured state.  I am using it for construction and I have decided to coat the
cured 5 min epoxy with a high quality laminating epoxy to seal/insulate it
from solvents, air, etc so that it is preserved-don’t know that it will work
but gonna do it that way.

Mike

*From:* *nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org*<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>[
*mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org*<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?>]
*On Behalf Of *Dwayne Brown
*Sent:* Monday, September 12, 2011 11:28 AM
*To:* 'General pattern discussion'
*Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy

Keep it in the freezer until needed and it will outlive all of us on the
NSRCA group.  Dwayne

-----Original Message-----
*From:* *nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org*<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>[
*mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org*<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?>]
*On Behalf Of *Michael S. Harrison
*Sent:* Saturday, September 10, 2011 1:59 PM
*To:* 'General pattern discussion'
*Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] 5 min expoxy

Tech question.

What is the lifespan quality of 5 min epoxy.  How long does it last?  I am
using in an electric for construction and I am concerned about degradation
over time.  How does the heat affect it?  I am building to ca models fuse.
What is your choice of adhesive in this case?

Thanks

Mike Harrison

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