[NSRCA-discussion] Junior Members for World Team

Mon May 30 19:00:26 AKDT 2011

As a side note to this conversation, I think this is one more reason to reconsider holding a separate team selection contest, rather than having it be part of the nationals.  Looking forward, there will be juniors that wish to fly the Nationals in a lower class that they're more competitive in, but would also be able and eligible to compete for the world team.  Having a independent selection event would allow them to do both.

There are other reasons to hold a separate contest as we've done in the past.  We'd avoid all the issues from this past year as everyone at a team selection contest would need to be registered and have their FAI Team stamp before it began.  We wouldn't be taking additional people into the finals to accommodate the foreign entries (nothing against the foreigners that come to compete!) or even potentially have someone kept  out of a semi final for the same reasons.   Lastly, the entire event could have a solid judging pool from all the various districts.   Again, no slight to those that judge at the nats (i'm one of them).   But with a smaller group of pilots (it's usually a smaller group) it's possible to use more judges for all the rounds, not just the finals.

I know...it's a logistics problem and another contest to coordinate.  But we did it for many years in the past and I think it could be done again.  Just throwing it out there.

-Mark

Mark Atwood
Paragon Consulting, Inc.  |  President
5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124 
Phone: 440.684.3101 x102  |  Fax: 440.684.3102
mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com  |  www.paragon-inc.com

On May 30, 2011, at 1:30 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:

All registrations for entry to the WCs had to be in by April 30th… so yes, it is too late to submit an entry.  I also feel that since we never had anyone qualify then we shouldn’t choose a junior just for the sake of doing so – there is a defined process (for regular team members) and I think we should follow it.  Unlike some countries, we fly several classes as stepping stones to F3A – several countries only fly F3A, so it is easier for them to choose someone.

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Gayer
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 7:41 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Junior Members for World Team

Arch,
I completely agree that we need a process for future years. Apparently there will be a formal junior competition in two years and we need to be ready to field a team for 2013. Whether or not the incentive of having a World Junior competition is good for junior development is something we can discuss down the road. Clearly it will be an expensive proposition when competing overseas.
This year I believe we need to offer the opportunity to a qualified under 18 to compete in the Worlds this year which is right around the corner. I don't know and haven't heard whether this is even possible at this late date(Derek?).
You mention several young pilots although it does not appear that they are currently flying F3A.
Do they feel qualified and/or want to participate? 
Perhaps we should solicit applications in the next week for qualified applicants who want to compete at the WC. Might only be a couple to choose from. At best we need a candidate very soon. Otherwise, it's already too late.
John

On 5/30/2011 8:18 AM, Archie Stafford wrote:
I disagree.  I think it does need to be formal.  Joseph Szczur competed a
couple of years ago in FAI and was a Jr, but is now flying Advanced and has
a good shot at winning this year.  Riley Kissenberth has won the NATS in
Intermediate and Advanced back to back years.  Brandon made the finals in
Masters 2 years ago.  They are all great pilots and there are others out
there, so its not fair to just pick one.  You need to have a basis on making
that decision.  I think long term we are better served, making it announced
at future team selection years, which could open up another can of worms.
You would then have kids flying Intermediate fly FAI that year, just for a
shot at the team, then back down, which is fine, except I think you are not
really helping their development.  I think the process needs to be developed
and put in place, not just send someone to say we sent someone.

Arch

On 5/30/11 9:29 AM, "Vicente "Vince" Bortone" <vicenterc at comcast.net> wrote:

I agree 100 %.  It is a great opportunity.  The selection process does not
need to be that formal.  You never know,  this could be a "chick" that will
allow us to discover the next champion.

Vicente "Vince" Bortone
----- Original Message -----
From: John Gayer &lt;jgghome at comcast.net&gt;
To: General pattern discussion &lt;nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org&gt;
Sent: Mon, 30 May 2011 13:18:02 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Junior Members for World Team
Derek,
Since noone qualified through the NAts last year, could we extend an
invitation to an under-18 who is currently flying F3A? Perhaps by making
a selection through how many competitors the candidate has beat in
contests this year? There can't be that many to choose from.
I suggest that the opportunity to compete in a world championship
against the best in the world would be a very memorable experience for
one of our kids regardless of trophies, etc. Whenever there has been an
opportunity to field a fourth entry as World Champion, we have done so,
even to the possible detriment of our team standing at the WC. I suggest
this would be in the same spirit without any downside impact to the team.
John
On 5/30/2011 12:01 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:

The Junior category for F3A is only effective starting in 2012. A
decision to include junior's was made by the CIAM F3A Sub-Committee
chair in November last year and got the approval of the CIAM committee
in early December at the CIAM meeting (which I did not attend). The
first I heard about this was the middle of January when we were
getting ready to publish the first bulletin for the WCs. This WC will
not offer a "Junior" World Champion -- there will only be a "highest
placing Junior" if there are more than 3 Junior's competing.

One other point to consider... there were NO junior's participating at
the Nats in F3A last year (2010). The only person that was listed to
participate was Brandon Landry and he never competed last year. It
would be a little hard to choose a junior when we didn't have any
competing...

*From:*nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of *John
Gayer
*Sent:* Sunday, May 29, 2011 7:10 PM
*To:* General pattern discussion
*Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Junior Members for World Team

That would be our CIAM representative, Derek Koopowitz. However, I
have no idea if he was the representative when the current rules for
2011 came up for a vote.
After that, Al Glenn as team manager should be familiar with the rules.
And of course anyone now flying F3A should also have read the rules.

Still I can see how this might be overlooked. After all, there appear
to be only two countries who did not overlook it. However the question
now should be: can we still propose a junior at this late date and do
we have one that is ready to step in? Were there any juniors or
seniors that flew F3A in last year's Nats??

On 5/29/2011 7:44 PM, Ronald Van Putte wrote:

I keep wondering who in the U.S. should have been "minding the store"
on this subject. If other countries picked up on adding a junior
member on their team, why didn't we?

Ron

On May 29, 2011, at 8:31 PM, Bob Richards wrote:

Then I guess the only alternative is to send no junior? Seems to me
that if we get a quick consensus to use the Nats results, it should
all be good.

JMHO,

Bob R.

--- On *Fri, 5/27/11, Joe Lachowski /<jlachow at hotmail.com
<mailto:jlachow at hotmail.com>>/* wrote:

From: Joe Lachowski <jlachow at hotmail.com <mailto:jlachow at hotmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Junior Members for World Team
To: "NSRCA Discussion List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
Date: Friday, May 27, 2011, 10:38 PM

I believe none particitated in the team selection process?

Picking someone based on anything else would open a can of worms.

Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 11:11:51 -0600
From: jgghome at comcast.net <mailto:jgghome at comcast.net>
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Junior Members for World Team

Looking at the AMA site for the Worlds, I notice that several
teams have
added a fourth junior member to their teams as per the new rules.
It is rather disappointing to me at least that we, as the host
nation,
have not given any of our juniors(under 18) a chance to compete
at the
world level against other international juniors.

John Gayer

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