[NSRCA-discussion] NATS 2012

Tue Dec 13 06:31:34 AKST 2011

Forgot to add the "tongue in cheek" smiley. . . .[?]

The weight rule is, and forever will be, a point of contention in the
pattern community. . .

Keith Hoard
Collierville, TN
khoard at gmail.com

On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:22 AM, Peter Vogel <vogel.peter at gmail.com> wrote:

> Y'know, while I find this funny, if I were Arch, I'd be offended.
>
> The question in my mind is:  if I were CD for the pattern nats would I
> want my message about registration hijacked into a rules mod thread?
>  Having taken on a huge task for the benefit of the community, would I
> consider doing it again based on the treatment I receive from the community
> leading up to, and at, the event?
>
> I'm not at a level where the nats are an option for me, but if I were, if
> I'd taken the care and kept my plane within the rules (whether I agree with
> them or not) would I want to be beaten by a plane that disregards one or
> more rules?  Emphatically, no.  Even if I disagree with the rules, I'd want
> to see them enforced uniformly at the nats.
>
> I believe there is a process by which the rules are modified, shouldn't we
> follow that process for rules with which we disagree?
>
> Peter+
> Sent from my iPhone4S
>
> On Dec 13, 2011, at 5:57 AM, Keith Hoard <khoard at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> All camping gear weight limits will be strictly enforced when on AMA
> property, especially during the Nats.  All campsites will be operated to
> the letter of the rulebook during the 2012 Nats.  When checking in at AMA
> HQ, your gear will be measured and weighed, and we will be sending
> Intermediate pilots over to your campsite to ensure strict compliance once
> in the morning, at sunset, at 2 a.m., and at random times in between.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Keith Hoard
> Collierville, TN
> khoard at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 11:52 PM, Toby Email <torqueroller2000 at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>> How many people tent camped at the last Nats?  Thinking about taking my
>> boys to go camping. Thanks. Toby
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 12, 2011, at 4:19 PM, "Michael S. Harrison" <
>> drmikedds at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> I suppose you have all heard my objections to  and the pointless nature
>> of the existing weight limit.  In the interest of promoting the sport and
>> the nationals I would encourage a tolerance level of 8 ounces and weigh the
>> planes at the beginning of the contest and forget about it until finals
>> day.  On that day weigh the finalists and do the contest.  This
>> unfortunately has turned into a weight contest-not a flying contest.  I
>> have heard all the arguments about how easy it is to make weight and it is
>> easy to build light aircraft…blah, blah blah.,  well, I disagree and the
>> weight rule is pointless.  It does not affect anything to have a little
>> heavier aircraft, and in most instances is much safer to have aircraft that
>> are a little heavier but much stronger ,thus much safer.  ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> As event director, you can implement mods to the rules for the above
>> reasons-promote the sport, safety and whatever else.  ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I very much support FAI, but they pretty much  have blown us off as far
>> as input but they sure don’t blow off our serious financial support.  I
>> disagree with them on this point and I have discussed the issue with a few
>> of them including the head of CIAM and they gave me absolutely no
>> compelling argument for the restrictive weight rule.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I would encourage you minimize your manpower usage in that area.  I would
>> never want that job.****
>>
>> M2c****
>>
>> Mike ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:
>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of *Archie Stafford
>> *Sent:* Monday, December 12, 2011 1:39 PM
>> *To:* General pattern discussion; General pattern discussion
>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] NATS 2012****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Ron,****
>>
>> I certainly understand there are challenges, and I'm also almost certain
>> that these challenges can be worked through, especially if we maybe only
>> end up weighing once per day or something.  We are working on the logistics
>> now and will have a better plan after the first of the year.  The rules
>> will be followed though and after calibrating the scales there will not be
>> allowances above the rules. If an airplane is weighed and comes in heavy,
>> we will recalibrate the scales and verify they were correct.  My gut
>> feeling is that not many planes will have a problem and constant
>> recalibration will not be necessary.   We may find this is not necessarily
>> the case, but I would be surprised if it is as I have played with the
>> scales I have and after many weights of differing amounts the calibration
>> seems to hold true.  My plan is after a flight the pilot brings the plane
>> back to a tent area, much like the worlds and the plane will be weighed
>> there.  If the plane is under weight, nothing else happens and his scores
>> will be submitted to the score keeper.  If the plane is over weight the
>> site director will come inside the tent area and verify the over weight
>> plane.  Obviously in this case the scales would be recalibrated.  If the
>> plane is still overweight the pilot will receive a zero score for that
>> round, but will be allowed to fly his next round.  A pilot could if he
>> wanted fail every weight check, and just get no scores for those rounds.  I
>> have no doubt there will be growing pains involved, but my hope is that if
>> pilots know 8 months in advance that they will be weighed that they will
>> take the steps necessary to ensure the aircraft is under weight prior to
>> arriving in Muncie.  I understand logistically this may pose some problems,
>> but we do have quite a bit of man power available with intermediate pilots
>> now being part of the judging pool.  Granted, they would not be able to do
>> this during the time they are flying, but then we would only need 3
>> additional people per day, which we can take from the other classes.
>> Having spoken to many people involved, we don't see that there is any
>> reason why we should not be able to do this with adequate planning.  I have
>> verified that we have access to the tents that were used at the worlds and
>> one will be setup at each location on Sunday before the pilots meeting to
>> allow pilots to verify the weight of their aircraft.   If a pilot chooses
>> not to take advantage of this opportunity it is on them.  ****
>>
>> Arch
>>
>>
>> On Mon 12/12/11 1:52 PM , Ronald Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net> wrote:****
>>
>> All I can say about weighing every airplane at processing and maybe after
>> every flight is:  good luck. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> John Fuqua and I did all the weighing at the at the F3A WC last year.
>>  There were 82 contestants and many had two airplanes.  We weighed every
>> one of them at processing.  That's a lot of weighing.  Then, we weighed
>> every electric-powered airplane after every flight.  In addition, we
>> weighed the glow-powered airplanes whose owners were unlucky to pull the
>> "wrong" ball after each flight.  We worked from the prelims through the
>> finals and neither of us want to do it again. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> We were particularly unhappy that a weight tolerance was given, even
>> though we provided accurate scales and calibration weights with
>> certification papers.  What was done appeared to be counter to F3A rules.
>>  I understand why a weight tolerance will be given to Intermediate pilots,
>> but hope the the 5000 gram limit will apply to all the rest of the
>> competitors.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Ron Van Putte****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> On Dec 12, 2011, at 12:30 PM, Archie Stafford wrote:****
>>
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Hello everyone. I trust that everyone is anxiously awaiting a shiny new
>> pattern <http://www.rcuniverse.com/buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=7016>plane or gizmo arriving at Christmas this year. I realize we are a ways
>> away from the NATS 2012, but its never too early to start communicating.
>> The official entry forms are now online at the following link.
>> http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/nats/entryforms.aspx Entry forms
>> will still be mailed to those who attended last year, but for anyone
>> wishing to get a jump on things and get registered now you can download the
>> entry form and send them in. I plan<http://www.rcuniverse.com/buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=5582>to start putting out monthly status updates after the first of the year so
>> that everyone knows where things stand. I have a great group of people who
>> have volunteered to help and everything is coming together very nicely.
>>
>> A few things worth mentionings are that the banquet will be held the
>> night <http://www.rcuniverse.com/buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=6133>before the finals this year. It will be held on site at the banquet area at
>> the museum and will be catered. Final catering details have not been
>> finalized yet. At this banquet, the Masters and FAI finalists will be
>> announced and flight orders drawn. This is possible this year due to the
>> rule change that there will no longer be an unknowns meeting per the new
>> FAI rules. The unknowns will be created by the Event Director and handed
>> out to the finalists at the banquet. This will also allow the Intermediate
>> and Advanced winners to be announced in front of the entire group.
>>
>> Another item to be aware of is that EVERY airplane will be weighed this
>> year. We are still finalizing plans on the most efficient way to do this,
>> but be aware that every airplane will be weighed this year and it will be
>> after a flight. Ideally they will be weighed after every flight, but at
>> least once a day is my goal. We learned a lot from how it was done at the
>> worlds last year and this should not be difficult to do as we have
>> intermediate pilots who no longer work transmitter impound that we can use
>> as well as some other people involved. As I said, the plans are not
>> finalized, but we are working very hard on them and after the first of the
>> year I will let everyone know what we have come up with as a final plan. My
>> goal is to stay in contact with everyone so that no one can say they didn't
>> know.
>>
>> One other important piece of information are the cut off deadlines. They
>> will be strictly enforced. They have been moved slightly closer to the
>> actual start of the NATS, but no entries after the final deadline will be
>> accepted. No exceptions. One change though is that up until the final cut
>> off we will be able to issue refunds. We will not be able to issue the
>> refund from the AMA part of the entry fee, but the NSRCA part of the fee
>> will be refunded.
>>
>> Looking forward to seeing everyone in Muncie in July.
>>
>> Please limit discussions to useful information regarding this thread.
>> Also, if you have a complaint on how things have been done, I am more than
>> open to listen, but please have ideas on how to correct these issues.
>>
>> Archie Stafford
>> 2012 Pattern NATS ED ****
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion****
>>
>> ** **
>>
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