[NSRCA-discussion] NATS 2012

Mon Dec 12 13:04:18 AKST 2011

Hey Ron,

I believe the variance is there not because of the official weight calibration, but because of each individuals weight calibration.  I.e. they're giving you a 1% variance in case your personal scale that you've been using is slightly off.  

-M
Mark Atwood
Paragon Consulting, Inc.  |  President
5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124 
Phone: 440.684.3101 x102  |  Fax: 440.684.3102
mark.atwood at paragon-inc.com  |  www.paragon-inc.com

On Dec 12, 2011, at 4:53 PM, Ronald Van Putte wrote:

Yes, I agree that the FAI F3A rules regarding weight are very clear.  However, I cannot fathom what weight "instrument inconsistencies" there might be other than calibration.  We agree to disagree.

Ron Van Putte

On Dec 12, 2011, at 3:44 PM, Dave Lockhart wrote:

> The FAI F3A rules regarding weight are very clear, in my opinion, and were followed to the letter at the 2011 Worlds.  The FAI F3A rules are different than AMA rules (also very clear, in my opinion).
>  
> FAI F3A states the maximum limit as 5000g, with a 1% tolerance for possible inconsistencies.  The 1% is not specified as instrument accuracy, precision, or calibration.  Therefore, calibrated scale or not, the maximum allowable weight is 5050g.
>  
> The AMA states the maximum limit as 5000g, with a tolerance of 50 grams IF a calibration system is not available.
>  
> References from rulebooks are below.
>  
> Regards,
> 
> Dave
>  
>  
>  
> From FAI Sporting Code, F3, RC Aerobatics, 2011 Edition
>                 5.1.2.  General Characteristics of Radio Controlled Aerobatic Models:
> Maximum total weight, with batteries…….5000g
>  
> A tolerance of 1% will be allowed for possible inconsistencies in measurement instruments for size, weight, and voltage unless otherwise stated.
>  
>  
> From AMA Comp Regs 2011-12, Amended 11/28/11
>                 4.3: Weight and Size:  No model may weigh more than 5000 grams gross, excluding fuel, ready for takeoff.   Electric models are weighed with batteries.  In Sportsman, Intermediate and Advanced an allowance of 115 grams is permitted.  No model may have a wingspan or total length longer than two (2) meters (78.74 inches).
>  
> Wherever practical, all aircraft should be weighed prior to the start of the contest. If weight is being enforced then all planes competing in that class must be weighed before the same round (round 1 or otherwise) for a baseline.  Only two attempts at making weight will be allowed on the day specified for weigh-in.  If no calibration system is available for the scales, a tolerance of 50 grams will be allowed for possible inaccuracies in the measurement instrument. 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Van Putte
> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:53 PM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] NATS 2012
>  
> All I can say about weighing every airplane at processing and maybe after every flight is:  good luck.
>  
> John Fuqua and I did all the weighing at the at the F3A WC last year.  There were 82 contestants and many had two airplanes.  We weighed every one of them at processing.  That's a lot of weighing.  Then, we weighed every electric-powered airplane after every flight.  In addition, we weighed the glow-powered airplanes whose owners were unlucky to pull the "wrong" ball after each flight.  We worked from the prelims through the finals and neither of us want to do it again. 
>  
> We were particularly unhappy that a weight tolerance was given, even though we provided accurate scales and calibration weights with certification papers.  What was done appeared to be counter to F3A rules.  I understand why a weight tolerance will be given to Intermediate pilots, but hope the the 5000 gram limit will apply to all the rest of the competitors.
>  
> Ron Van Putte
>  
> On Dec 12, 2011, at 12:30 PM, Archie Stafford wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello everyone. I trust that everyone is anxiously awaiting a shiny new pattern plane or gizmo arriving at Christmas this year. I realize we are a ways away from the NATS 2012, but its never too early to start communicating. The official entry forms are now online at the following link.http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/nats/entryforms.aspx Entry forms will still be mailed to those who attended last year, but for anyone wishing to get a jump on things and get registered now you can download the entry form and send them in. I plan to start putting out monthly status updates after the first of the year so that everyone knows where things stand. I have a great group of people who have volunteered to help and everything is coming together very nicely. 
> 
> A few things worth mentionings are that the banquet will be held the night before the finals this year. It will be held on site at the banquet area at the museum and will be catered. Final catering details have not been finalized yet. At this banquet, the Masters and FAI finalists will be announced and flight orders drawn. This is possible this year due to the rule change that there will no longer be an unknowns meeting per the new FAI rules. The unknowns will be created by the Event Director and handed out to the finalists at the banquet. This will also allow the Intermediate and Advanced winners to be announced in front of the entire group. 
> 
> Another item to be aware of is that EVERY airplane will be weighed this year. We are still finalizing plans on the most efficient way to do this, but be aware that every airplane will be weighed this year and it will be after a flight. Ideally they will be weighed after every flight, but at least once a day is my goal. We learned a lot from how it was done at the worlds last year and this should not be difficult to do as we have intermediate pilots who no longer work transmitter impound that we can use as well as some other people involved. As I said, the plans are not finalized, but we are working very hard on them and after the first of the year I will let everyone know what we have come up with as a final plan. My goal is to stay in contact with everyone so that no one can say they didn't know. 
> 
> One other important piece of information are the cut off deadlines. They will be strictly enforced. They have been moved slightly closer to the actual start of the NATS, but no entries after the final deadline will be accepted. No exceptions. One change though is that up until the final cut off we will be able to issue refunds. We will not be able to issue the refund from the AMA part of the entry fee, but the NSRCA part of the fee will be refunded. 
> 
> Looking forward to seeing everyone in Muncie in July. 
> 
> Please limit discussions to useful information regarding this thread. Also, if you have a complaint on how things have been done, I am more than open to listen, but please have ideas on how to correct these issues. 
> 
> Archie Stafford 
> 2012 Pattern NATS ED
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>  
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20111212/58e00b1d/attachment.html>