[NSRCA-discussion] NATS 2012

[Archie Stafford]

Mike,

As you can imagine I have heard these objections and while I certainly
understand and appreciate them, I disagree.  I feel that this is a National
Championship and as such the rules should be followed as closely to the
letter as possible.  This also makes it much easier regarding protests and
such.  Regardless of the opinions on the weight rule, it is in the rule book
and I want to follow the rulebook as closely as possible.  I believe in the
past that the biggest obstacle for enforcing this rule was manpower.  I
don¹t believe this is the case any longer as we now have the Intermediate
pilots who can do this job, since they are not judging.  My goal this year
is to run this contest as close to the rulebook as possible with as few
exceptions as possible.  I don¹t expect everyone to agree with every
decision, but I believe that as it is the National Championships, it is the
one contest a year that as many rules as possible can be followed.  I plan
to publish any deviations from the rules, if there are any after the first
of the year once I have all of the logistics worked out.    It is possible
that enforcing the rules may change the mind of enough people that they
decide to remove the weight rule, then so be it, but as long as it is a
current rule I plan to enforce it.  Other disciplines have issues like this
as well such as the builder of the model rule in control line stunt.  Yet,
at the NATS it is enforced.

Regarding late entries.  The dates are now set in stone and will not be
changed.  These were established at the NATS planning meeting in September.
The initial entry date has been pushed up until 1 month prior to the start
of the contest and the late deadline is set at 2 weeks prior.  After
discussing this with Rusty, Dave Guerin, and others this makes the most
sense from a logistical stand point for the ED and other who are trying to
get things setup.  The AMA bases the number of plaques they will supply on
the number of entries as of a certain date (usually 1 month out).  The NSRCA
could pay for additional plaques if they wanted, but I don¹t see the reason
in this additional cost.  I believe that while a few may have schedule
changes, the vast majority of pilots have the dates reserved well in
advance.  Some may even have already reserved their rooms.  Setting a hard
cut off of two weeks out in my opinion is not an unreasonable and gives the
ED and others a much better chance of planning for things such as the
banquet, pilots meeting BBQ, flight order and others.  I¹m sure there will
be a few who may still be no shows, but it is much easier to remove a few
pilots than it is to add more in.  What I learned from my discussions from
previous ED¹s and people from other disciplines is that the later you allow
people to register, the more that will register late.  When people are
spending several hundred, if not thousands of dollars to attend the NATS, a
$100.00 or more late fee will not deter them from registering late.  In 2008
when I was unable to attend the NATS due to being stuck in Iraq for work I
had already registered for the NATS.  I considered my entry fee just a
donation to the AMA/NSRCA and realized that I would save much more than that
by not attending.  My goal is to have as much planning and such done before
I leave for Muncie, so that when I arrive, as much preparation work is
complete, so I can focus 100% on running the event rather than trying to
find places for a few late entries.  I am sure that there will be growing
pains and headaches once I get to Muncie, but any that can be eliminated
ahead of time will do nothing but benefit the event as a whole.  From
talking to other ED¹s from various disciplines, one of their biggest
headaches is the number of people that register late.  Most would love to
have a policy in place as the pattern NATS have done for setting late
deadlines, but they have faced many obstacles getting their SIG¹s to agree
to this.  As it has been past policy in pattern, it is easy to leave it
alone.  It would also be easy to eliminate, but from these discussions I do
not believe it is the right thing to do.  There were several things I
learned at the NATS planning meeting and this was one of them.  The key this
year is that these deadlines will be strictly enforced.  I would encourage
those who are on the fence about attending to go ahead and register during
the early period and then we can refund the NSRCA part of your funds back to
you up to 2 weeks prior to the start of the event.

Archie


On 12/12/11 3:19 PM, "Michael S. Harrison" <drmikedds at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> I suppose you have all heard my objections to  and the pointless nature of the
> existing weight limit.  In the interest of promoting the sport and the
> nationals I would encourage a tolerance level of 8 ounces and weigh the planes
> at the beginning of the contest and forget about it until finals day.  On that
> day weigh the finalists and do the contest.  This unfortunately has turned
> into a weight contest-not a flying contest.  I have heard all the arguments
> about how easy it is to make weight and it is easy to build light
> aircraftŠblah, blah blah.,  well, I disagree and the weight rule is
> pointless.  It does not affect anything to have a little heavier aircraft, and
> in most instances is much safer to have aircraft that are a little heavier but
> much stronger ,thus much safer. 
>  
> As event director, you can implement mods to the rules for the above
> reasons-promote the sport, safety and whatever else.  
>  
> I very much support FAI, but they pretty much  have blown us off as far as
> input but they sure don¹t blow off our serious financial support.  I disagree
> with them on this point and I have discussed the issue with a few of them
> including the head of CIAM and they gave me absolutely no compelling argument
> for the restrictive weight rule.
>  
> I would encourage you minimize your manpower usage in that area.  I would
> never want that job.
> M2c
> Mike 
>  
> 
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Archie Stafford
> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:39 PM
> To: General pattern discussion; General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] NATS 2012
>  
> Ron,
> 
> I certainly understand there are challenges, and I'm also almost certain that
> these challenges can be worked through, especially if we maybe only end up
> weighing once per day or something.  We are working on the logistics now and
> will have a better plan after the first of the year.  The rules will be
> followed though and after calibrating the scales there will not be allowances
> above the rules. If an airplane is weighed and comes in heavy, we will
> recalibrate the scales and verify they were correct.  My gut feeling is that
> not many planes will have a problem and constant recalibration will not be
> necessary.   We may find this is not necessarily the case, but I would be
> surprised if it is as I have played with the scales I have and after many
> weights of differing amounts the calibration seems to hold true.  My plan is
> after a flight the pilot brings the plane back to a tent area, much like the
> worlds and the plane will be weighed there.  If the plane is under weight,
> nothing else happens and his scores will be submitted to the score keeper.  If
> the plane is over weight the site director will come inside the tent area and
> verify the over weight plane.  Obviously in this case the scales would be
> recalibrated.  If the plane is still overweight the pilot will receive a zero
> score for that round, but will be allowed to fly his next round.  A pilot
> could if he wanted fail every weight check, and just get no scores for those
> rounds.  I have no doubt there will be growing pains involved, but my hope is
> that if pilots know 8 months in advance that they will be weighed that they
> will take the steps necessary to ensure the aircraft is under weight prior to
> arriving in Muncie.  I understand logistically this may pose some problems,
> but we do have quite a bit of man power available with intermediate pilots now
> being part of the judging pool.  Granted, they would not be able to do this
> during the time they are flying, but then we would only need 3 additional
> people per day, which we can take from the other classes.  Having spoken to
> many people involved, we don't see that there is any reason why we should not
> be able to do this with adequate planning.  I have verified that we have
> access to the tents that were used at the worlds and one will be setup at each
> location on Sunday before the pilots meeting to allow pilots to verify the
> weight of their aircraft.   If a pilot chooses not to take advantage of this
> opportunity it is on them.
> 
> Arch
> 
> 
> On Mon 12/12/11 1:52 PM , Ronald Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net> wrote:
>> 
>> All I can say about weighing every airplane at processing and maybe after
>> every flight is:  good luck.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> John Fuqua and I did all the weighing at the at the F3A WC last year.  There
>> were 82 contestants and many had two airplanes.  We weighed every one of them
>> at processing.  That's a lot of weighing.  Then, we weighed every
>> electric-powered airplane after every flight.  In addition, we weighed the
>> glow-powered airplanes whose owners were unlucky to pull the "wrong" ball
>> after each flight.  We worked from the prelims through the finals and neither
>> of us want to do it again.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> We were particularly unhappy that a weight tolerance was given, even though
>> we provided accurate scales and calibration weights with certification
>> papers.  What was done appeared to be counter to F3A rules.  I understand why
>> a weight tolerance will be given to Intermediate pilots, but hope the the
>> 5000 gram limit will apply to all the rest of the competitors.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Ron Van Putte
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Dec 12, 2011, at 12:30 PM, Archie Stafford wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Hello everyone. I trust that everyone is anxiously awaiting a shiny new
>>> pattern <http://www.rcuniverse.com/buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=7016>
>>> plane or gizmo arriving at Christmas this year. I realize we are a ways away
>>> from the NATS 2012, but its never too early to start communicating. The
>>> official entry forms are now online at the following link.
>>> http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/nats/entryforms.aspx
>>> <http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/nats/entryforms.aspx>  Entry forms will
>>> still be mailed to those who attended last year, but for anyone wishing to
>>> get a jump on things and get registered now you can download the entry form
>>> and send them in. I plan
>>> <http://www.rcuniverse.com/buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=5582>  to start
>>> putting out monthly status updates after the first of the year so that
>>> everyone knows where things stand. I have a great group of people who have
>>> volunteered to help and everything is coming together very nicely.
>>> 
>>> A few things worth mentionings are that the banquet will be held the night
>>> <http://www.rcuniverse.com/buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=6133>  before the
>>> finals this year. It will be held on site at the banquet area at the museum
>>> and will be catered. Final catering details have not been finalized yet. At
>>> this banquet, the Masters and FAI finalists will be announced and flight
>>> orders drawn. This is possible this year due to the rule change that there
>>> will no longer be an unknowns meeting per the new FAI rules. The unknowns
>>> will be created by the Event Director and handed out to the finalists at the
>>> banquet. This will also allow the Intermediate and Advanced winners to be
>>> announced in front of the entire group.
>>> 
>>> Another item to be aware of is that EVERY airplane will be weighed this
>>> year. We are still finalizing plans on the most efficient way to do this,
>>> but be aware that every airplane will be weighed this year and it will be
>>> after a flight. Ideally they will be weighed after every flight, but at
>>> least once a day is my goal. We learned a lot from how it was done at the
>>> worlds last year and this should not be difficult to do as we have
>>> intermediate pilots who no longer work transmitter impound that we can use
>>> as well as some other people involved. As I said, the plans are not
>>> finalized, but we are working very hard on them and after the first of the
>>> year I will let everyone know what we have come up with as a final plan. My
>>> goal is to stay in contact with everyone so that no one can say they didn't
>>> know. 
>>> 
>>> One other important piece of information are the cut off deadlines. They
>>> will be strictly enforced. They have been moved slightly closer to the
>>> actual start of the NATS, but no entries after the final deadline will be
>>> accepted. No exceptions. One change though is that up until the final cut
>>> off we will be able to issue refunds. We will not be able to issue the
>>> refund from the AMA part of the entry fee, but the NSRCA part of the fee
>>> will be refunded.
>>> 
>>> Looking forward to seeing everyone in Muncie in July.
>>> 
>>> Please limit discussions to useful information regarding this thread. Also,
>>> if you have a complaint on how things have been done, I am more than open to
>>> listen, but please have ideas on how to correct these issues.
>>> 
>>> Archie Stafford
>>> 2012 Pattern NATS ED
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
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>>>  
>>> 

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