[NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at the fields where you compete

Thu Dec 8 17:08:28 AKST 2011

Hit enter and hold for more than 3 seconds for zero score.  The headphone tells you total downgrade every time you hit a down grade.  For me uno, dos, three opppppps cero. 

Vicente "Vince" Bortone
----- Original Message -----
From: J N Hiller &lt;jnhiller at earthlink.net&gt;
To: General pattern discussion &lt;nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org&gt;
Sent: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 01:07:30 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at the fields where you compete
Should two or more mandated downgrades have dedicated buttons? If so how many or do we need to count the clicks while loading defects. What about zeros? Keeping track of a number of clicks distracts from concentrating on a flight that in reality is to be judged from box entry to box exit. I believe the activity of accumulating deductions in real time is more efficiently done in our head. The score number can be kicked down from 10 almost instantly with little thought as we observe ongoing defects. The biggest distraction is instant recall of maneuver specifics such as mandatory downgrades, inverted / upright entry and exits and the necessary roll direction and number of points to meet the requirement. I personally would have a problem trying to stay on top of all this while counting clicks or using more than a couple dedicated buttons. Yes it could become second nature with enough training and practice. Not many of spend that much time in the judging chair. 
Jim 
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" Bortone
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 3:46 PM
To: Marty King
Cc: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at the fields where you compete
What if we have a system with only 3 buttoms. 1 point & 1/2 point deductions and enter. When you hit enter, the systen gives you next manuever in one ear head phone and store the deductions of previous manuever. Just dreaming but could be good. How many times we miss something important because we don't remember the next manuever? Always keep pencil and paper as backup just in case. If judging FAI and judge hits 1/2 point will advice in the ear phone that is not valid option in FAI. 
Vicente "Vince" Bortone
----- Original Message -----
From: Marty King &lt;mking46516 at yahoo.com&gt;
To: General pattern discussion &lt;nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org&gt;
Sent: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 22:31:55 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at the fields where you compete
Spending the past 23 years in IT and doing scoring at the both the district level and Nats I have to chime in.
I have found, that since I use both a tablet and Iphone for all my communication these days, you can not be 100% sure of a consistent keystroke on a touch screen. And if you miss just one well placed digit, it distracts you and sets off a lot of unwanted fumbling. Unless the device wrote to a file that could be checked by the judge for correctness prior to being sent over the wireless, there would be a lot of issues. As a point of history we moved off of Scantron sheets at the Nats so we could do several things. One big one was to try and put the judges eyes back on the airplane. Second was to lower the expectation of what scribes, if used, had to do (we were using outside scribes) Then third was to have three eyes checking the data, the judges to make sure the score sheet was filled in completely, the data entry person to input and a data verification person to check the data. 
I think the wireless aspect (especially a secure 2.4 or 5.8) may have some merit, especially if used at the Nats, we could send and import a judges complete score sheet per pilot. A scratch pad would still be used for the raw scoring, but as now, it could be transferred instead to a wireless device instead of a score sheet and sent to the Host scoring PC or server. This would alleviate the second check of the data at scoring, as no data would actually be keypunched. You also would not need runners and scoring would take place even more timely than it already does now. If any questions would arise (as they do at the Nats) we could go back to the judges scoring pad on site for final verification. Right now we simply pull the score sheet and handle the issue.
We had similar issues with ones writing directly on the Scantron score sheets, not watching the plane, loosing their place.... Before we changed to hand written score sheets in 2005, I went through the 2003 & 2004 Scantron sheets and there were a LOT of errors and NO's on them.
If the cell system was perfect ( can you hear me now.....) and it isn't by a long shot in many areas of the county, sending individual keystrokes would be a challenge. 
One other system some of you may be aware of is in the field of Education. There are classroom systems out that allow students using handheld clickers (think of a small TV remote) to enter answers in real time. The data is collected and displayed, how many right, how many wrong etc. This is based on both Bluetooth and 2.4 ghz at the present time and prices for systems range from 500.00 up to 2495.00. The problem still is hitting the correct keys consistently. When testing the first systems in 2005 we had students that said they answered correctly, but the software said otherwise. Either they lied or maybe press the wrong button. There was no way to check, as the clickers do not hold a file, they were real time.
Real time data entry is fast. However, in competition consistency and accuracy is a must, but it is hard to achieve both in real time. You need a way to double check and verify. I know competitors want true and accurate scores. Otherwise, there is no reason to fly in front of judges.
Just a few thoughts,
Marty
D4
NSRCA 2551
AMA 9945 CD LM
Marty King
574-304-5781
56632 Boss Blvd. Elkhart, Indiana 46516
________________________________
 From: Phil S. <chuenkan at comcast.net>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2011 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick question re: cellular data service at the fields where you compete
Jim is correct -- I spent the last 10 years of my career studying
driver distraction (for the FHWA) in a driving simulator. I have said
for a LONG time, that eyes-on-road and hands-on-wheel (with the
"hands-free methods) does NOT mean mind on-driving-task. I have used
the van Putte method, and it WORKS. People can NOT multitask, any more
than a single-core CPU can, and while one task is swapped out, it task
will suffer, no matter how short the swap-time is.
On 12/8/2011 12:32 PM, J N Hiller wrote:
>Hear we go
again!
>Keeping 'eyes
on airplane' is of little benefit when the brain's concentration or
thought is
elsewhere. The distraction incurred trying to operate a remote devise
will
likely outweigh the benefits, at least for many of us willing to admit
it. I
find writing numbers in a line along the edge of a clipboard to be the
least distracting.
> 
>Jim
--
Phil Spelt, KCRC President
AMA 1294 Scientific Leader Member
SPA 177 Board Member
(865) 435-1476v, (865) 604-0541c
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