[NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond

Wed Sep 22 21:30:19 AKDT 2010

Sad news for pattern.

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Fuqua
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 8:23 PM
To: 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond

Based on the votes I have received the proposal has passed.    

John Fuqua

CB Chairman

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek
Koopowitz
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 7:12 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond

Jon,

Based on the preliminary votes I think the removal of the schedules from the
rule book will pass (I'll keep my fingers crossed), which essentially means
that we could possibly wait until 12/31/2010 before the NSRCA board
announces the new schedules for 2011/2012.  That won't happen (waiting until
12/31) since it isn't fair and doesn't make sense.  I've revised the guide
which includes a defined timeline and I'm just waiting on some minor
adjustments to be made before I have the board review and approve the guide.
Here is the draft timeline that is in the revised guide:

1.0        Sequence Submittal Process 

The following is the recommended timeline for the development and submission
of new sequences.  Sequence development should always start in the year
prior to when the sequence is to be replaced.  For example, if the Masters
sequence (2 year lifecycle) is to be replaced in 2013 (X) then work on the
development of a new sequence should start in 2011 (X - 2).  What follows is
a timeline showing the activity (task) and the month the activity should
start:

TASK
TIMELINE

Assign and approve Committee Chairperson                           October -
year X - 2

Committee Chairperson recruits Committee Membership        October - year X
- 2

BoD approves Committee Membership
November - year X - 2

Establish development schedule
December - year X - 2

Review design criteria/receive BoD approval for changes       December -
year X - 2

Develop preliminary changes/sequences and flight test           January
through March - year X - 1

Publish for public comment on NSRCA website/K-Factor      April through May
- year X - 1

Finalize changes/sequence selection based on comments         June through
August - year X - 1

Submit proposed changes/sequences to BoD for approval       September - year
X - 1

Publish approved sequences on NSRCA website/K-Factor     October - year X -1

New sequences in use
January - year X

Hopefully this answers your question.

-Derek

On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Jon Lowe <jonlowe at aol.com> wrote:

Derek, 

When, exactly, do the District VP's vote on this? A "couple of weeks"
doesn't mean much to me.   When, exactly, do we get to see the "new and
improved" masters sequences?  Why aren't they posted now?  Why do we have to
wait until after "the end of the weekend"?  It would appear that they would
want as much feedback as they can get, especially at this late date.

  When is the schedule for final approval and announcement of the new
sequences going to be added to the Sequence development guide?  There is a
schedule of sorts in there, but it doesn't state when final sequences will
be announced. You asked this at the NSRCA Board Meeting this year, and I
asked this shortly after the Nats, and got blown off, here:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9759516/anchors_9899988/mpage_1/key_/ancho
r/tm.htm#9899988

So I'm asking again since the guide hasn't been revised in this area.

Since the AMA contest board final vote isn't due to be announced until 30
Sep (ballots were only due to the AMA on 15 Sep), are you sure we will be
able to revise our own sequences?  Do you have advanced info from the AMA
that it passed?

Jon Lowe

-----Original Message-----
From: Derek Koopowitz <derekkoopowitz at gmail.com>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>

Sent: Wed, Sep 22, 2010 6:10 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond

Pattern length for each class has been a design criteria for a number of
years and it has been used very successfully to build current and past
sequences.  Since we are using each of the classes as a building block to
the next higher class, it makes sense to use each sequence to work on and
build flying skills.  One can only do so much with maneuvers in a class
before it becomes too intense for the pilot and wears them out (in the lower
classes) - that's why Sportsman has box entry/exit breaks during the
sequence.  BTW, the rules also state that a CD can have Sportsman fly their
sequence back-to-back if they'd like to fly a little longer.

On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 3:53 PM, John Gayer <jgghome at comcast.net> wrote:

Derek,

When it comes to the pattern length we should all have a say. Why should the
Masters pattern have more maneuvers and take longer than any other pattern?
You cannot say there is no impact on other flyers and their judging duties
when Masters is often the largest class and use more than their share of the
contest time as well. You could say that the "content" of each class pattern
should be up to those with "skin" in the game.

There was nothing in the survey that stated "Vote only for the patterns in
the class you are flying or may fly next year". Nor do I believe that such a
statement should be added.

John 

On 9/22/2010 4:30 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: 

Dave, 

After writing my reply to you I got to thinking again and I don't agree with
your assessment.  This is about selecting a sequence that matter to the
people that fly it not to the people that judge it or to the people that may
have to wait around to fly again because of a large Masters turnout.

Flame away...

-Derek

On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Dave Burton <burtona at atmc.net> wrote:

Derek,

I really object to your definition of who has "Skin in the game" -  We all
do if we pay our dues and attend contest.

The "skin" is the impact of a long vs. short sequence for every Masters
flyer, Flyer who will be flying Masters in the next two years, every
flyer/non flyer who judges at a contest, and every other flyer in all the
other class who have to wait until the typically large Masters class
finishes whatever sequence they fly.

So, whether I fly Masters in the next two years or not, I intend to let my
opinion be known to my district VP and I expect him to give my view the same
weight of any other opinion from "Masters" flyers or others. 

This is an issue that should not be decided by only "Masters" flyers.

Dave Burton

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek
Koopowitz
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 5:31 PM
To: General pattern discussion

Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond

Over 10 months ago the NSRCA Sequence Committee completed its work on the
new sequences.  These were posted on the NSRCA website for review and
comment - see below:

http://nsrca.us/proposedsequences/2011sequences.html

Included in all this material was a draft document that outlined the process
on how sequences are developed, tested and approved and the makeup/content
of the sequences based on the class it is meant to serve.  This document is
titled "NSRCA Procedures, Standards and Guidelines for AMA R/C Precision
Aerobatics Sequence Development".  A mouthful, but it does outline a lot of
information.  It details the charter for the Sequence Committee, sequence
development standards and guidelines for all classes, catalog of maneuvers
for all classes and the process that the NSRCA will follow in designing,
testing and approving changes to sequences, or for proposed sequences.
These sequence development standards and guidelines have been in place for
about 4 years now and have been used very successfully to build the current
set of sequences that everyone is flying today, in addition to the prior
Masters sequence (and the new one as well).

Overall we received positive comments on the proposed sequences from
Sportsman through Masters.  As you know, there were two sequences developed
for Masters, a long sequence using the standard 23 maneuver count and a
short sequence using 19 maneuvers.  In the time since we posted the
sequences, some informal surveys were also made on the NSRCA website as well
as on RCU asking for a preference of either the short or long Masters
schedule.  The overwhelming majority of respondents chose the short
sequence.  However, these surveys were a little flawed in that we didn't
really know who was voting for them - were they all judges/pilots who voted
because they didn't want to judge a long sequence, or were they really
current and/or future Masters pilots that really did want to fly a shorter
sequence.

Since the release of the proposed schedules, and some post Nats comments,
the sequence committee has been hard at work making some tweaks to the short
schedule with a view to increasing the difficulty level of the short Masters
sequence to bring it into line with the long Masters sequence and also to
ensure that we weren't lowering the bar in difficulty by introducing a
shorter sequence.  Bear in mind that the short sequence is only 19 maneuvers
(17 of them flyable) so raising the difficulty level is a challenge if one
is to avoid using some existing F3A type maneuvers, or "airplane killers",
and to only use maneuvers that match the philosophy that we've embraced for
a number of years.  Since we've never developed a short Masters sequence, we
need to make sure we get it right and that it not only provides a challenge
to those that fly it but that it still provides a somewhat relatively higher
jump for those pilots that are moving up from Advanced.  We realize that
creating a perfect schedule is not going to happen - we won't be able to
please every pilot that moves up from Advanced, nor will we be able to
please some former F3A pilots that think the schedule is too easy and isn't
enough of a challenge.  There has to be a balance.  The Sequence Committee
came up with some good positive changes and these are being vetted/tested as
I write this.  They've received extremely positive feedback from everyone
that has either flown the newer short sequence on a simulator or using their
pattern plane at the field.  By the end of this weekend we'll know for sure
whether it is a keeper or not.

When we do post the revised sequence I would like all of you that have "skin
in this game", meaning you are a current Masters pilot or will be moving to
Masters in the next year or two, to please contact your NSRCA District VP
and let them know what your preference is - short or long sequence.  The
reason they need to know is that the NSRCA board will vote in the next
couple of weeks to approve all the proposed sequences and also to select
which sequence the Masters class will be flying in 2011/2012.

The Sequence Committee is comprised of Joe Lachowski, Dave Lockhart, Verne
Koester, Bill Glaze, Archie Stafford, and Richard Lewis.  They've put in an
extraordinary amount of work on these sequences and documentation and
deserve huge kudos from everyone!  Thanks guys - your work is very much
appreciated!

We've also created a Sequence Committee section on the NSRCA website which
will have more information soon.  It will contain the updated draft
documentation and all the proposed sequences in one location.  You can get
to the new section from the main menu - just look for Sequence Committee -
it is near the bottom of the menu.

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