[NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond

Jon Lowe jonlowe at aol.com
Wed Sep 22 16:51:44 AKDT 2010


Derek,
T


Jon Lowe



-----Original Message-----
From: Derek Koopowitz <derekkoopowitz at gmail.com>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wed, Sep 22, 2010 7:11 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond


Jon,


Based on the preliminary votes I think the removal of the schedules from the rule book will pass (I'll keep my fingers crossed), which essentially means that we could possibly wait until 12/31/2010 before the NSRCA board announces the new schedules for 2011/2012.  That won't happen (waiting until 12/31) since it isn't fair and doesn't make sense.  I've revised the guide which includes a defined timeline and I'm just waiting on some minor adjustments to be made before I have the board review and approve the guide.  Here is the draft timeline that is in the revised guide:



1.0       Sequence Submittal Process 
Thefollowing is the recommended timeline for the development and submission of newsequences.  Sequence development shouldalways start in the year prior to when the sequence is to be replaced.  For example, if the Masters sequence (2 yearlifecycle) is to be replaced in 2013 (X) then work on the development of a newsequence should start in 2011 (X – 2). What follows is a timeline showing the activity (task) and the month theactivity should start:
 
TASK                                                                                        TIMELINE
Assign and approve CommitteeChairperson                           October - year X – 2
Committee Chairpersonrecruits Committee Membership        October – year X - 2
BoD approves CommitteeMembership                                   November – year X - 2
Establish development schedule                                               December – year X - 2
Review designcriteria/receive BoD approval for changes       December – year X - 2
Develop preliminary changes/sequencesand flight test           January through March – year X - 1
Publish for public comment onNSRCA website/K-Factor      April through May – year X - 1
Finalize changes/sequenceselection based on comments         June through August – year X - 1
Submit proposedchanges/sequences to BoD for approval       September – year X - 1
Publish approved sequences onNSRCA website/K-Factor     October – year X -1
New sequences in use                                                               January – year X


Hopefully this answers your question.


-Derek


On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Jon Lowe <jonlowe at aol.com> wrote:

Derek,
When, exactly, do the District VP's vote on this? A "couple of weeks" doesn't mean much to me.   When, exactly, do we get to see the "new and improved" masters sequences?  Why aren't they posted now?  Why do we have to wait until after "the end of the weekend"?  It would appear that they would want as much feedback as they can get, especially at this late date.


  When is the schedule for final approval and announcement of the new sequences going to be added to the Sequence development guide?  There is a schedule of sorts in there, but it doesn't state when final sequences will be announced. You asked this at the NSRCA Board Meeting this year, and I asked this shortly after the Nats, and got blown off, here:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9759516/anchors_9899988/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#9899988
So I'm asking again since the guide hasn't been revised in this area.


Since the AMA contest board final vote isn't due to be announced until 30 Sep (ballots were only due to the AMA on 15 Sep), are you sure we will be able to revise our own sequences?  Do you have advanced info from the AMA that it passed?


Jon Lowe



-----Original Message-----
From: Derek Koopowitz <derekkoopowitz at gmail.com>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>



Sent: Wed, Sep 22, 2010 6:10 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA sequences for 2011 and beyond


Pattern length for each class has been a design criteria for a number of years and it has been used very successfully to build current and past sequences.  Since we are using each of the classes as a building block to the next higher class, it makes sense to use each sequence to work on and build flying skills.  One can only do so much with maneuvers in a class before it becomes too intense for the pilot and wears them out (in the lower classes) - that's why Sportsman has box entry/exit breaks during the sequence.  BTW, the rules also state that a CD can have Sportsman fly their sequence back-to-back if they'd like to fly a little longer.


On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 3:53 PM, John Gayer <jgghome at comcast.net> wrote:

          
    Derek,
    
    When it comes to the pattern length we should all have a say. Why    should the Masters pattern have more maneuvers and take longer than    any other pattern? You cannot say there is no impact on other flyers    and their judging duties when Masters is often the largest class and    use more than their share of the contest time as well. You could    say that the "content" of each class pattern should be up to those    with "skin" in the game.
    
    There was nothing in the survey that stated "Vote only for the    patterns in the class you are flying or may fly next year". Nor do I    believe that such a statement should be added.
    
    John


    
    On 9/22/2010 4:30 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:    
Dave,      

      
      
After writing my reply to you I got to thinking again and I        don't agree with your assessment.  This is about selecting a        sequence that matter to the people that fly it not to the people        that judge it or to the people that may have to wait around to        fly again because of a large Masters turnout.
      

      
      
Flame away...
      

      
      
-Derek
      

      
      
        
On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Dave          Burton <burtona at atmc.net>          wrote:
          
            
              
                
Derek,
                
I really object to your                    definition of who has “Skin in the                    game” -  We all do if we pay our dues and attend                      contest.
                
The “skin” is the impact                    of a long vs. short                    sequence for every Masters flyer, Flyer who will be                    flying Masters in the next                    two years, every flyer/non flyer who judges at a                    contest, and every other flyer                    in all the other class who have to wait until the                    typically large Masters class                    finishes whatever sequence they fly.
                
So, whether I fly Masters                    in the next two years or not, I intend                    to let my opinion be known to my district VP and I                    expect him to give my view                    the same weight of any other opinion from “Masters”                    flyers or                    others. 
                
This is an issue that                    should not be decided by only “Masters”                    flyers.
                
Dave Burton
                
 
                
                  
From:                      nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org                      [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]                      On Behalf Of Derek                      Koopowitz
                      Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 5:31 PM
                      To: General pattern discussion
                  

                    Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed NSRCA                    sequences for 2011 and beyond
                
                
 
                
Over 10 months ago the NSRCA                  Sequence Committee completed                  its work on the new sequences.  These were posted on                  the NSRCA website for                  review and comment - see below:
                
                  
                    
                      
 
                    
                    
                      
http://nsrca.us/proposedsequences/2011sequences.html
                    
                    
                      
 
                    
                    
                      
Included in all this material                        was a draft document that                        outlined the process on how sequences are                        developed, tested and approved and                        the makeup/content of the sequences based on the                        class it is meant to serve.                         This document is titled "NSRCA Procedures,                        Standards and Guidelines                        for AMA R/C Precision Aerobatics Sequence                        Development".  A mouthful,                        but it does outline a lot of information.  It                        details the charter for the                        Sequence Committee, sequence development                        standards and guidelines for all                        classes, catalog of maneuvers for all classes                        and the process that the NSRCA                        will follow in designing, testing and approving                        changes to sequences, or for                        proposed sequences.  These sequence development                        standards and guidelines                        have been in place for about 4 years now and                        have been used very successfully                        to build the current set of sequences that                        everyone is flying today, in                        addition to the prior Masters sequence (and the                        new one as well).
                    
                    
                      
 
                    
                    
                      
Overall we received positive                        comments on the proposed                        sequences from Sportsman through Masters.  As                        you know, there were two                        sequences developed for Masters, a long sequence                        using the standard 23 maneuver                        count and a short sequence using 19 maneuvers.                         In the time since we                        posted the sequences, some informal surveys were                        also made on the NSRCA website                        as well as on RCU asking for a preference of                        either the short or long Masters                        schedule.  The overwhelming majority of                        respondents chose the short                        sequence.  However, these surveys were a little                        flawed in that we didn't                        really know who was voting for them - were they                        all judges/pilots who voted                        because they didn't want to judge a long                        sequence, or were they really current                        and/or future Masters pilots that really did                        want to fly a shorter sequence.
                    
                    
                      
 
                    
                    
                      
Since the release of the                        proposed schedules, and some post                        Nats comments, the sequence committee has been                        hard at work making some tweaks                        to the short schedule with a view to increasing                        the difficulty level of the                        short Masters sequence to bring it into line                        with the long Masters sequence and                        also to ensure that we weren't lowering the bar                        in difficulty by introducing a                        shorter sequence.  Bear in mind that the short                        sequence is only 19                        maneuvers (17 of them flyable) so raising the                        difficulty level is a challenge                        if one is to avoid using some existing F3A type                        maneuvers, or "airplane                        killers", and to only use maneuvers that match                        the philosophy that we've                        embraced for a number of years.  Since we've                        never developed a short                        Masters sequence, we need to make sure we get it                        right and that it not only                        provides a challenge to those that fly it but                        that it still provides a somewhat                        relatively higher jump for those pilots that are                        moving up from Advanced.                         We realize that creating a perfect schedule is                        not going to happen - we                        won't be able to please every pilot that moves                        up from Advanced, nor will we be                        able to please some former F3A pilots that think                        the schedule is too easy and                        isn't enough of a challenge.  There has to be a                        balance.  The                        Sequence Committee came up with some good                        positive changes and these are being                        vetted/tested as I write this.  They've received                        extremely positive                        feedback from everyone that has either flown the                        newer short sequence on a                        simulator or using their pattern plane at the                        field.  By the end of this                        weekend we'll know for sure whether it is a                        keeper or not.
                    
                    
                      
 
                    
                    
                      
When we do post the revised                        sequence I would like all of you                        that have "skin in this game", meaning you are a                        current Masters                        pilot or will be moving to Masters in the next                        year or two, to please contact                        your NSRCA District VP and let them know what                        your preference is - short or                        long sequence.  The reason they need to know is                        that the NSRCA board will                        vote in the next couple of weeks to approve all                        the proposed sequences and also                        to select which sequence the Masters class will                        be flying in 2011/2012.
                    
                    
                      
 
                    
                    
                      
The Sequence Committee is                        comprised of Joe Lachowski, Dave                        Lockhart, Verne Koester, Bill Glaze, Archie                        Stafford, and Richard Lewis.                         They've put in an extraordinary amount of work                        on these sequences and                        documentation and deserve huge kudos from                        everyone!  Thanks guys - your                        work is very much appreciated!
                    
                    
                      
 
                    
                    
                      
We've also created a Sequence                        Committee section on the NSRCA                        website which will have more information soon.                         It will contain the                        updated draft documentation and all the proposed                        sequences in one location.                         You can get to the new section from the main                        menu - just look for                        Sequence Committee - it is near the bottom of                        the menu.
                    
                  
                
                
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