[NSRCA-discussion] FW: weight difference

Sun Aug 22 08:52:57 AKDT 2010

I think that a weight limit increase will result in higher costs too, as Dave has said countless times. I've been around the sport since 1979 and have seen how every change has affected cost. 

I suspect that if somehow we managed to reduce the size limits, the cost would possibly be unaffected...some may actually figure a way to increase cost for that too.

In regard to weight, I am in favor of NO CHANGE to the rule. But I also favor NOT ENFORCING the rule TIGHTLY ( we do that to other rules also). That is certainly the case for local contests. For Nats competition, I favor checking the plane weights only of the top 4 F3A US winners that will represent the US at the WC. 

If we must keep weight checking at the Nats, I do not favor disqualification of any overweight plane and the scores it earned. That is too harsh a punishment. Rather, I favor a penalty, something like dropping scores by 2-5% or dropping the high round score, or something like that.

MattK

-----Original Message-----
From: davel322 at comcast.net
To: General pattern discussion &lt;nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org&gt;
Sent: Sun, Aug 22, 2010 11:07 am
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: weight difference

Tim,

I'm well aware of where the rules changes came from (FAI), and how they were followed by AMA, and it changes nothing with respect to my original point.  When the limits have increased, increased costs have followed without exception.

Pattern planes are quiet because we have a noise rule...even though it is not enforced locally.

Pattern planes are limited in cost because we have limits...and the most competitive are the most costly - that will never change.  Increase the limits, and the costs for the most competitive setups will increase - it always has, and it always will.

The current proposal to allow a "cushion" to the weight limit in the lower classes is I think a good idea.  For the FAI based designs (the vast majority), the lightest and most expensive equipment will not have to be used.  For the AMA based designs (very few in number), planes will still be designed to meet 11 lbs and therefore an increase in size/weight/expense is very unlikely to happen.

Regards,

Dave L

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Taylor" &lt;timsautopro at yahoo.com&gt;
To: "General pattern discussion" &lt;nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org&gt;
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 8:25:18 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW:  weight difference

Dave,

One minor detail that throws a wrench into the history and today.

All 4 of those changes that made huge changes in our sport were from the top down.

 FAI made those changes and we have what we have today.

The change we're talking about only effects the US in AMA classes, not FAI.

There are no pattern kits currently being designed and built in mass in the USA. Even if they were they'd likely be designed by guys in FAI. They will NOT design an airplane that cannot compete at the FAI level. It just wont happen.

What harm can it do if I build a Focus2 in Elect and show up 1/2 pound over weight? 

None.

What harm will it do if an Advance flier shows up with a 2 year old airplane bought from an FAI pilot and he has heavier batteries or repairs have now made the airplane over weight? 

None.

Will you have a guy show up with a 50cc 2x2  3d monster from time to time? 

Yes, 

does it matter?

 No.

 He won't pass the noise test anyway. :)

Can any CD here honestly tell me that they'll turn a pilot down at a contest (Besides the nats) because he's 3 oz over weight?

I doubt it, 

Tim

--- On Fri, 8/20/10, Dave &lt;DaveL322 at comcast.net&gt; wrote:

From: Dave &lt;DaveL322 at comcast.net&gt;
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: weight difference
To: "'General pattern discussion'" &lt;nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org&gt;
Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 5:54 PM

Just noticed this didn’t make it to the list the first time……was too big with all the RE:RE:RE:RE (trimmed now).  And…I’m off to a contest!  J

Dave 

From: Dave [mailto:DaveL322 at comcast.net] 
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 10:17 AM
To: 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: RE: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference

This whole discussion is one where history really does speak volumes – 

In short, there has always been a limiting factor (whether size, weight, power, noise).  That limit has always been pushed by the top level competitors, and the top level stuff is always the most expensive, and it offers a competitive advantage over cheaper setups.  And the masses (certainly 90+% anyway) follow the guys at the top. 

In short, everytime a limiting factor has been increased (for whatever reasons), the size, cost, expense, etc has increased.  Cheaper options are available now, and they are not as competitive.  Change the rules, and cheaper options will still be available and still not be as competitive as the new standard that will be achieved by the top level competitors that push the new limits.  In the last 20 or so years, I’ve seen this cycle about 4 times.  There is no magical rule or formula that will change this for open competition…the cycle will repeat every time a limit is raised. 

Regards, 

Dave 

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ed Alt
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:55 AM
To: NSRCA List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight difference

I should have checked my building noes first - it was actually 10 lbs 4 oz.  But I'm not a professional builder either.  Point is, it can be done within the existing rules.  You just have to get past the idea that it can't be done.

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