[NSRCA-discussion] unknowns

Tue Sep 22 06:14:05 AKDT 2009

Thanks Mike.  Give IMAC a try if you can borrow a plane and practice snap rolls with it.  I think though you will be surprised that the skills that separate pilots in pattern (like maintaining heading control and distance, wings level, geometry), are not so rewarded in scoring in the IMAC sequences (or read as these same skill areas are not so downgraded in IMAC like they would be in pattern).   One reason the geometry falls away, is that the "family of maneuvers" descriptions, such as Family 1, will turn what is in pattern as a "Figure N (centered of course)", into a maneuver consisting of lines and radii - none of the radii need to match, none of the lines need to match, no centering criteria.  Again, different strokes as the saying goes.
Thanks,
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mike mueller
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:57 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] unknowns

 Wow Jim that is the best explaination of the difference I've ever seen. Thanks for that post I will save it and use it again.
 I'd love to try IMAC someday but it's a time and resource problem to do so at this point. We have a number of IMAC guys at my field and I like them all. I find we have a lot in common but your right about the differences too. Thanks, Mike Mueller

--- On Tue, 9/22/09, Woodward, Jim (US SSA) <jim.woodward at baesystems.com> wrote:

> From: Woodward, Jim (US SSA) <jim.woodward at baesystems.com>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] unknowns
> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 8:46 AM
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Unknowns in pattern?  IMAC
> versus pattern?   
> 
>    
> 
> I’ve flown a bunch of
> IMAC over the last 4 years. 
> IMAC and Pattern answer two different questions, and each
> group has DISTINCTLY different
> personalities.  At the end of a pattern contest, you
> will see who flew the
> sequences the best (usually the best pilot).  At the
> end of an IMAC
> contest, you will get closer to seeing who the best pilot
> is in that
> class.  There are pros and cons for each, each fitting
> the personalities
> of the groups. 
> 
>    
> 
> Pattern:  Is about
> learning the fundamentals of precision
> flight. Group is not too excited about changing sequences
> too often, especially
> for the lower classes.  It is a pattern-truth that the
> lower classes are
> designed to build piloting skill and teach precision
> aerobatics fundamentals
> (wings level and such).  This group recognizes that
> guys don’t get
> to fly every day, and the goal is “fly your sequence
> the best you can.” 
> Lower classes are not considered “destination”
> classes. 
> Pattern guys almost 100% of the time can get into Advanced
> and Masters, with
> F3A being hit or miss.  Pattern guys believe it is
> “fair” that
> the competition is only the  “known”
> sequences because this
> levels the playing field – anyone can compete because
> we know what is
> going to be flown ahead of time, and the tier-2 kind of
> pilot has a competitive
> chance against tier-1 pilot, per se’. 
>  Pattern guys want to
> know what the rules are, and then build a plane within the
> rules and maximize
> what they can.  Pattern guys are open, and keep all
> contests open to
> whoever can make it. 
> 
>    
> 
> IMAC:  almost 100%
> opposite to the pattern
> personality.  Guys don’t like rules!  Do
> not want rules applied
> to planes (… no support for even adequate mufflers or
> tuned
> pipes/silencers). Not willing to “describe”
> airspace or where
> maneuvers are flown (read ACS definition if like and let us
> know what the criteria
> is).  IMAC does not encourage moving up in the way the
> culture of pattern
> does – plenty of guys in IMAC will fly Basic or
> Sportsman for many
> years.  Intermediate is realistically the destination
> class.  Few
> make it into Advanced, and less into Unlimited.  IMAC
> guys want to fly new
> sequences every year, and this sort of offsets the
> motivation for moving
> up.  IMAC guys have some affinity for
> “freestyle” and
> undisciplined flying – they like that you don’t
> have to practice
> the know sequence all the time.  All you need to do is
> keep “close”
> in the knowns, and score a high unknown round and you can
> win the contest due
> to the higher weighting the unknown round carries. 
> IMAC guys don’t
> really focus on getting better geometry out of
> maneuvers  - as hitting
> snap rolls will make or break you IMAC score.  Using
> the 0.5/point per 5
> degree rule, “snap-rolls” are in fact the whole
> secret to scoring
> IMAC patterns well – it is a maneuver within a
> maneuver and you need to
> learn how your plane snaps at low speed, high speed,
> power-on, and
> power-off.  If you can’t hit a snap roll exit,
> don’t even
> think about getting into Advanced or Unlimited.  This
> group likes “exclusivity”
> or “invitational” events, and this also makes
> its way into the
> regional championships.   
> 
>    
> 
> So – there are totally
> different personalities at work for
> both organizations.  I like flying unknowns, but I
> don’t think it is
> a good mix for precision aerobatics events. 
>  Guys moved from F3A into
> Masters to get away from the two known sequences, so I
> don’t think
> unknowns for the AMA classes really fits into the culture,
> or our goals of “precision”
> aerobatics. 
> 
> Thanks, 
> 
> Jim 
> 
> 
> 
>    
> 
> 
> 
>    
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From:
> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On
> Behalf Of Anthony
> Romano
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:50 AM
> 
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> 
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] unknowns 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>    
> 
> Hi Stu,
> 
>  Did you happen to find out how they deal with the
> scoring? If it is
> national and everyone is using the same program maybe
> an update could be
> available for the CD to download prior to the event?
> 
>  One thing I noticed was a lot of judges
> with the aresti in one
> hand and score sheet in the other while judging. Lots of
> looking away during
> the flight. I looked over a few shoulder and would have put
> down some similar
> numbers.
> 
>  
> 
> Anthony
> 
>  
> 
> > Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 08:42:06 -0400
> 
> > From: schale at optonline.net
> 
> > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> 
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] unknowns
> 
> > 
> 
> > OK don't kick me off the list but I flew an IMAC
> contest last weekend. 
> 
> > (yes in Basic with a pattern plane :) )
> 
> > Has any thought been given to flying unknowns as the
> IMAC guys do? If 
> 
> > you are not familiar with it, on a 2 day contest the
> unknown is handed 
> 
> > out after flying is done on the first day. The unknown
> is appropriate 
> 
> > for your class and is the same nationwide for that
> weekend. You are on 
> 
> > an honor system not to fly it or use a sim (I suspect
> some people do) 
> 
> > and the first flight of day 2 is the unknown. I
> believe it can not be a 
> 
> > dropped round. Basic class flies their usual sequence
> no unknown. It 
> 
> > adds a bit of excitement to the 2nd day of the
> contest. You have to be 
> 
> > able to do a bunch of maneuvers not in this years
> sequence but 
> 
> > appropriate for the class. So practice time might be
> more than 6 
> 
> > identical flights of your current sequence. And most
> importantly it may 
> 
> > provide for some separation for the top fliers in each
> class. I had a 
> 
> > lot of fun discussing the sequences with my friends
> that were there, and 
> 
> > watching and listening to them after flying it. Hard
> to fly a sequence 
> 
> > for the first time without making a significant
> error.
> 
> > 
> 
> > Stuart
> 
> > 
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> 
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> 
> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> 
> >
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insert
> movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. See how. 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion