[NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question

Thu Oct 22 16:34:30 AKDT 2009

Matt, what is it about FAI patterns that makes them "not the type of
flying you want to do?"  Honestly, the ‘P’ pattern isn't that
distinguishable from the Masters pattern as far as difficulty is
concerned and it has already been stated that rolling maneuvers would
be removed for Masters.

BTW, I'm not a proponent of flying the FAI P pattern in Masters,
however, if we do I'll still be here.

As you know D6 FAI began flying the F pattern on Sunday a couple of
years ago. One FAI pilot I knew was extremely upset about this as he
felt the "big boys" were trying to weed out the less competitive
pilots. He complained for weeks and stated he would "NOT" fly that
“plane killer”. To my surprise one day when I showed up at the field
he was flying ‘F’.  I asked him why and he pretty much just grumbled.
Now if you ask him he’ll tell you that flying F has been a very
positive thing for his skills and overall enjoyment of the hobby.
The point is sometimes were surprised by the outcome of things that
are thrust upon us. Before quitting it’s always a good idea to give it
a try.  ;-)

Will you be at the Crowley contest this weekend? If so let’s chat!

Keith Black

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 4:27 PM,  <mjfrederick at cox.net> wrote:
> Keith,
>
> It's not that I'm choosing not to play because I didn't get my way. I'm
> choosing not to play because I don't feel the F3A schedules are the type of
> flying I want to do. I moved up to Advanced this year because of peer
> pressure. I didn't feel I was ready for it, but my buddies insisted I was,
> so I moved up. I've finished 3rd twice and 1st in the most recent contest.
> Those are the only contests I've been able to attend this year, and we never
> had fewer that 7 contestants in the class. I guess I was ready. To tell the
> truth I'm bored with Advanced already, but I know I have more development to
> do before moving to Masters, so I'll probably still be flying Advanced next
> year although I could justify moving up. I love Pattern. It's all I've ever
> done since I started flying. What would I do other than fly pattern? Who
> says I have to compete in AMA pattern to compete or fly? I have planes that
> are both SPA and BPA legal, and I'd be willing to bet neither of those
> organizations are going to change just because of what the FAI is doing. No
> hard feelings, Keith, but don't assume that my decision to state that was
> some sort of childish knee-jerk reaction.
>
> Matt
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:17 AM, Keith Black wrote:
>
>> Matt, you’re not the first one to say that, but quite frankly I don’t
>> understand this attitude of “I’m not going to play anymore if I don’t
>> get my way :-( ”. This isn’t a kindergarten playground.
>>
>> Anyone who would quit because of a rules change must not love the
>> hobby/sport. What are you going to do? Go fly Zaggies or gliders or
>> maybe spend your time fishing? Man, that'll beat the heck out of
>> having to comply with that new pattern rule.
>>
>> Sorry to be harsh, but please!  The way I look at it is I REALLY love
>> pattern and I’m sticking with it no matter what changes until I tire
>> of it or find something I enjoy more. I’ll try and influence the rules
>> when I believe it’s constructive but once the debate is over it’s time
>> to fly!  Everyone has to play by the same rules. Just give me the
>> sequence and tell me when I'm up. Big plane, little plane, electric,
>> glow…  hell, I’ll even wear the special pattern approved underwear if
>> necessary as long as it’s a level playing field. ;-)
>>
>> Hopefully no hard feelings Matt.
>>
>> Keith Black
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Matthew Frederick <mjfrederick at cox.net>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've been out of town, so I'm just now seeing this discussion. I can
>>> honsetly say right now I will stop flying pattern once I'm done with
>>> Advanced if this rule goes through.
>>>
>>> Matt
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Atwood, Mark"
>>> <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
>>> To: <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 6:17 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question
>>>
>>>
>>>> Couldnt agree more...
>>>> --------------------------
>>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>>> <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> Sent: Wed Oct 21 19:08:22 2009
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question
>>>>
>>>> Mark, regardless of whether we make any of the classes harder, I don't
>>>> think
>>>> equipment should factor into what maneuvers should be flown in each
>>>> class.
>>>> About 5 years ago, I was forced to move up from sportsman because I beat
>>>> 4
>>>> other pilots, 2 were flying trainers and one was flying a sport plane.
>>>>  It
>>>> was my second contest and I was flying a 60 Kaos.  I know we fixed this
>>>> issue but it illustrates that this sport does require some level of
>>>> investment in equipment (programmable radio and an aerobatic capable
>>>> plane).
>>>>
>>>> I understand where Duane is coming from.  After 4 years in intermediate
>>>> I
>>>> still get the pucker factor when flying from time to time especially in
>>>> the
>>>> wind.  The first consideration when designing schedules is safety.  I
>>>> wouldn't want a sportsman or intermediate pilot loosing his plane due to
>>>> brain overload.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood,
>>>> Mark
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 2:32 PM
>>>> To: 'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org'
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question
>>>>
>>>> You raise another interesting point regarding moving 4pts and slow rolls
>>>> down a level and that's the demand on equipment.   Currently, knife edge
>>>> trim, while nice, is not essential for the intermediate pattern.
>>>>  Changing
>>>> that also changes the level of equipment, radios especially, required
>>>> for
>>>> that sequence.  Currently my son competes with a Kaos 40 (single aileron
>>>> servo so no differential) on a basic radio. He has no mixes on the
>>>> plane,
>>>> nor does he really need any.
>>>>
>>>> -M
>>>> --------------------------
>>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>>> <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> Sent: Tue Oct 20 20:45:18 2009
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question
>>>>
>>>> The two-point in Sportsman was intimidating enough until I started
>>>> following
>>>> the trimming chart and moved my CG back so it doesn't drop nearly as
>>>> much.
>>>> Now, if only I had adjustable wing incidence to fix the pull to belly in
>>>> knife edge.  I'll try some 2/4 and see if I can work up to 4/4 without
>>>> unduly risking my airplane.
>>>>
>>>> Duane
>>>>
>>>>> From: "Dave" <DaveL322 at comcast.net>
>>>>> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 7:57:11 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd like to hear from the Sportsman. Do you want a 4 point in
>>>>> Intermediate, or is Intermediate intimidating enough? Consider going
>>>>> from a partial turnaround sequence to a full turnaround sequence? How
>>>>> about in a 20 mph blow in crosswind? Are you ready to trim your plane
>>>>> for knife edge flight?
>>>>
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