[NSRCA-discussion] basic judging question

[J N Hiller]

Most of the time in a stiff head wind or an occasional tailwind the airplane
will need to be brought to near vertical just prior to rotation to prevent
flopping and re-pitched into the wind about the time the tail waggle is
canceled. Timing is critical as any visible uncorrected line either up or
down can be subject to downgrade. I find that setting a corrected line (yaw)
prior to the roll in the figure M especially challenging in a crosswind.
Flying in the wind can be enjoyable. I should do it more.
Jim Hiller

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of
verne at twmi.rr.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 7:41 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] basic judging question

I don't fly IMAC, but in the scenario you describe where the plane is
pitched into the wind to maintain track, you're going to have make a wind
correction either right before, during, or immediately following the stall
to maintain vertical tracking on the down line following the stall. If you
have the plane tracking perfectly by pitching into the wind up to and
including the stall, the aircraft pitch after the stall will be completely
opposite of what you need to be wind corrected on the down line. Not sure if
I explained this very well, but it's something I've worked on this year to
try and make the pitch corrections a little more stealthy. With my Integral,
the plane stalls better if it's perfectly vertical at the moment of stall
anyway and then just needs a slight pitch adjustment on the down line. OTOH,
when I don't get it right, it looks pretty ugly!

Verne


---- Bill's Email <wemodels at cox.net> wrote:
> OK, and WOW. Things have changed since my tenure then is all I can say.
>
> Woodward, Jim (US SSA) wrote:
> >
> > Bill -- I can see where the confusion is -  as I perfectly relayed the
> > information as taught in the SE judging seminar and confirmed in the
> > practical judging practice held on Sundays.  The IMAC judging
> > committee interprets the definition to mean that the attitude
> > (fuselage) must be in the vertical plane during the rotation.  They
> > further back this up by stating that if the plane were to be in the
> > "wind-corrected" attitude (not perfectly vertical) during the
> > rotation, that it would be subject to the 0.5 pt per 5 degree rule.
> > I've been in the room 3 times when Wayne M. has explained this and
> > answered many questions from it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Lots of discussion took place over this in the judging seminar.
> > Basically they are teaching that for "yaw" you can remain wind
> > corrected, but for the pitch axis, you must be in the vertical plane.
> > Sorry if this seems to contradict the rule, but this is what is being
> > taught and practiced in the South East.
> >
> >
> >
> > I think it looks funny, and I would prefer for the interpretation to
> > allow "wind-correction" for any time, but I must fly what they teach
> > as the scoring criteria SE.  On the other hand, I would love to know
> > if this has changed as well.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of
> > *Bill's Email
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:48 AM
> > *To:* General pattern discussion
> > *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] basic judging question
> >
> >
> >
> > Woodward, Jim (US SSA) wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > However, this dovetails into the recent IMAC & Pattern comparison
> > threads.  In IMAC, the plane is supposed to be brought into the
> > "vertical plane" prior to the stall-turn(pivot) taking place.  This is
> > mostly evident if you are flying in a strong headwind where you are
> > wind correcting the vertical line.  Just prior to the stall turn, the
> > pilot hast to pitch the plane into the vertical plane, then yaw around
> > the pivot, then return to the wind corrected down line.
> >
> >
> >
> >  Not sure where you got this about IMAC, but it is incorrect. This may
> > be the cause of your confusion (from Rule 8.5):
> >
> > The wings must remain in the vertical geometric plane throughout the
> > turnaround, and the aircraft's attitude before and after the
> > turnaround must be absolutely vertical (unless wind correction is
> > required), with no extraneous tail movement. There must be no rotation
> > around the pitch or roll axis. If there is movement around any axis
> > other than the yaw axis, often referred as "torquing" (Fig. 25), there
> > is a deduction of 0.5 points per 5 degrees of axis.
> >
> > At no time in IMAC is the actual attitude of the plane judged, it is
> > ALWAYS the track of the theoretical center of mass. You are not
> > required to alter the pitch of the plane at the point if the rotation
> > starts if the pitch attitude in not vertical due to wind correction.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
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