[NSRCA-discussion] Activities for a Sunday ,, was Too Quiet
Woodward, Jim (US SSA)
jim.woodward at baesystems.com
Mon Nov 16 08:55:40 AKST 2009
Matt, Bryan,
I'm pretty sure the Osmose and Passport have the same wing and H-stab. However, the speed envelope of the planes are totally different. The Osmose is much faster and can get out of control speed wise. The Passport never really reaches escape velocity :) the way the Osmose can.
Just pointing out a plane to plane comparison of fuselage drag given the same wings and stabs.
GREAT work on the gas engine too, as I'm sure there are some guys that will be drawn towards it who prefer to run gas in IMAC planes and such.
Thanks,
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of shinden1 at cox.net
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 12:48 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Activities for a Sunday ,, was Too Quiet
Hey Matt,
I agree on the drag issue , fuse drag is almost a non issue,
it`s the least contributor to our problems, I hope the project works out
It could be another low cost option for IC :)
Anything is possible with a well thought out concept and good
engineering ,keep us up to date.
However ,reliability is the most critical issue we face as competitors so that I believe is the biggest obstacle for a gas set up.,should be a fun project .
If you can get them to run like you had your webra`s set up ,then you will have Gold!
Bryan
---- rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote:
>
> I've heard some comments about gas not being competitive and on paper, it might be true. In practice, you can throw the theory out the window. I suspect similar comments about other engine arrangements as well, the comparisons being against either the YS 170 or certain electric set-ups that put out at least 3500 W (weight??)
>
> Keeping the weight at 11# or less makes practically any airframe viable. Forget about the so called draggy fuses. The majority of drag is in the wing. Make this right and you can toss drag arguments out the window too. And I don't mean reducing the area
>
> 2 stroke gas has certain specific advantages over 2 stroke glow. Ignition timing eliminates the need to time the engine using mixture and pipe. Downline brakes is another area I am looking forward to experiencing.
>
> Plus....."Look Ma, no goo". At 100:1 oil mix, what goo is there? Well that's true for the Syssa; don't know what mix G is using in his 160
>
> (I try not to use the running cost and maintenance cost arguments too much since these are amortised and hidden for the most part. They exist but most don't care)
>
> MattK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: W. Eddie Batchelor <perkinsrx at centurytel.net>
> To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:36 am
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Activities for a Sunday ,, was Too Quiet
>
>
>
> I must concur. Contrary to some comments by others that the gas converted
> S160 isn't competitive - At our LARKS contest we watched Mark Hunt fly P-11
> ith George's Black Magic VF3/ OS160-Gas and he didn't lack power anywhere
> n the sequence. The half-square loop with full snap roll up proved the
> ower avail. It was fun to watch.
> Eddie
> -----Original Message-----
> rom: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
> lmiller3 at suddenlink.net
> ent: Monday, November 16, 2009 6:15 AM
> o: General pattern discussion
> ubject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Activities for a Sunday ,, was Too Quiet
> Matt,
> Very interesting. I have two 160's and they are turning 7900 with 18.1X11
> PC's. They don't have the "stupid power" of a YS 170 but they will pull
> he plane through maneuvers just fine.
> Good luck with the Syssa, and keep us apprised.
> G
> --- rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote:
> =============
> G,
> I have both powerplants. Weight favors the Syssa by a couple ozs. Power is
> robably a wash. I will tell you that the Syssa, brand new, turns a 17x12 at
> 200 on pipe. After break in it will run a couple hundred more. My 160 on
> ipe didn't run those numbers on the ground but flew the plane well enough.
> This will be an intersting experiment since the plane is the same one I used
> ith the 160. Ed Alt is compiling data for a future KFactor article
> The ZDZ40 is still in the works for me. Mine will make weight but I agree,
> he engine system is heavier than it should be
> MattK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> rom: glmiller3 at suddenlink.net
> o: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> ent: Sun, Nov 15, 2009 10:29 pm
> ubject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Activities for a Sunday ,, was Too Quiet
>
>
>
>
>
> orry, John,
> Matt's not the only one working on a gas pattern plane. I've been working
> n
> ne for a year now. OS160 converted to gas with a ProSpark ignition. I
> ust
> bout have the kinks worked out of the system. The Syssa looks pretty heavy
> o
> e, that's why I abandoned trying the ZDZ40 and went with the OS160.
> G
> --- John Pavlick <jpavlick at idseng.com> wrote:
> =============
> hat's one of the nice things about living in New Jersey: you don't have to
> o
> ar to fly with Pattern Legends! Living in Connecticut is another story. I
> on't
> ant to tell you what happened at my field this weekend... LOL
> Jeez Matt, you gave away your secret weapon plans. Now everyone will be
> uilding
> gas Pattern plane for next season! VBG
> John Pavlick
> ttp://www.idseng.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: rcmaster199 at aol.com
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 8:15 PM
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Activities for a Sunday ,, was Too Quiet
>
> Getting my Enigma original design outfitted with the new Syssa 180
> asoline
> ngine. The soft mount build has just been completed and retrofitting on the
> firewall just done. It just needs servos and it will fly next weekend
> eather
> ermitting
> On Ed Alt's suggestion, we went to fly with legendary pattern competitor,
> im
> artin. I first saw him fly 40 years ago, flying his Banshee design in a
> anner
> had never seen before. Extremely fast, right on the deck, with extreme
> recision. He was twice my age back then and being a rank beginner and shy,
> t
> ever occured to me to approach him just to talk. Well, 40 years later, I
> ot
> he chance. What a nice man... one very interesting thing to me being of
> rmenian decent, he told me that he also is of Armenian decent. That's
> retty
> ool to me
> He explained that he has a new version of his famed Banshee in a more
> urrent,
> uch better done fiberglass/foam configuration that he intends to electrify.
> That should be cool.
> MattK
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Atwood, Mark <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
> To: 'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Sun, Nov 15, 2009 3:10 pm
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Too Quiet
>
> ut Flying!
> -------------------------
> ent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
> ---- Original Message -----
> rom: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
> o: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> ent: Sun Nov 15 15:17:44 2009
> ubject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Too Quiet
> I'm in the shop building..can't speak for anyone else.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> rom: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
> On Behalf Of rjo626 at aol.com
> ent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 2:20 PM
> o: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> ubject: [NSRCA-discussion] Too Quiet
>
> Helloooooooooooooooooooo!
>
> Later!
>
> Anyone?
>
> RJO
>
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