[NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props & Header

Thu Nov 5 14:44:31 AKST 2009

Bill,

They run much smoother on Cool Power 30% heli fuel. Because of the
special oil.  I can't speak for the other fuels but I do know my
experience with them has been they idle much better and smoother on the
30% heli Cool Power.  Get with Jerry Plyler he saw the difference in the
fuels. He tried some of the local and went back to the good stuff. He'll
be happy to tell you about his experience. 

Troy

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill
Glaze
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 2:53 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props & Header

Jerry, I intend to try your suggestion.  Even if the header stays tight,
I don't like to see this much vibration, inasmuch as, even with the Hyde
mount, it can't be doing the airframe and electrical components any
good.

If you were getting more power at 30%, then I sure won't be rattling the
engine with 15%; plus, it doesn't act as if it's on the edge of
detonation.  Pump screw is flush with the housing, needle is open 2
clicks over 1-1/4 turns--everything seems to be right.  The other day,
whe I flew it, Itached it at 8800 with an APC 16x10 that I like to use
on the Focus series.

Bill Glaze

	----- Original Message ----- 

	From: Jerry Stebbins <mailto:JAStebbins at worldnet.att.net>  

	To: General pattern discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

	Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 3:30 PM

	Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props & Header

	Bill, best I remember it was actually better--more power. But
then we were running 30% heli. If it is rattling around on 15% I sure
would try it.

	Jerry

		----- Original Message ----- 

		From: Bill Glaze <mailto:billglaze at bellsouth.net>  

		To: General pattern discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

		Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 12:55 PM

		Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props &
Header

		Jerry:

		Thanks--do you have any idea about how many r.p.m's it
will cost me?  I'm only running 15% fuel, and, as most know, the
easiest, (cheap and dirty) way to increase h.p. is by increasing
volumetric efficiency, and the easiest/cheapest way to do that is to
increase the engine's compression ratio.  Just wondering how much h.p.
this will cost me.  But, will probably still try it anyway--the shaking
is obscene.

		Bill

			----- Original Message ----- 

			From: Jerry Stebbins
<mailto:JAStebbins at worldnet.att.net>  

			To: General pattern discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

			Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:10 PM

			Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For
Props & Header

			Bill, it will not vibrate near as much if you
install an extra cylinder gasket. ( 2 needed on top of the cylinder) Try
it and it will tame the L down to a respectable level. 

			Jerry

				----- Original Message ----- 

				From: Bill Glaze
<mailto:billglaze at bellsouth.net>  

				To: General pattern discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

				Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 7:54
AM

				Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking
For Props & Header

				In my case, it's a fairly simple
problem.  The 1.40L vibrates so much, that the stud unscrews from the
head, leaving the header dangling in space alongside the exhaust port.
I have about a foot of Teflon tubing between the outlet of the header,
and the inlet of the Hatori pipe. I also have their (NMP) header brace
in place to try to help stabilize the header. 

				The engine has already, after about 6
flights, broken a Johnson Header; that's why I am trying the NMP.  I got
the last NMP Central had in stock, and they said that the person who was
making them is not doing so any more. (That's what I was told, anyway.)
The Hatori pipe is sitting on one mount, about halfway back on the pipe,
and the whole outfit is free to move back and forth along with the
engine movement.  I had hoped that, with the entire mess moving, it
would permit the stud to stay screwed in the head.  I'm worried lest the
stud strip the threads in the head.  The instructions say that "some
people have had the header loosen" and to try a certain type of Permatex
form-a-gasket material.  I've used this stuff before when I had a racing
engine business, but I certainly never used it in this type of
application.

				It seems to me that the entire problem
is caused by the excessive engine vibration that the 1.40L is known for.

				Any help?

				Bill Glaze

				----- Original Message ----- 

				From: Troy Newman
<mailto:troy at troynewman.net>  

				To: General pattern discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

				Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 5:39
PM

				Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking
For Props & Header

				I don't know what you mean by will it
stay attached?

				The new header is a wrap around style
header like the previous NMP and the Hatori 822 style headers. 

				All of the 120-170 engines have the same
head configuration (meaning same angle)  and same thread size. SO the
new header will fit all 120-170 engines.

				There is one exception. The 120AC has
the air box on the back of the head. This prevents the use of the wrap
around style headers on this engine. Other than that they are all the
same.

				The NMP header was a really good header
for the application. When we were using Teflon tubing to connect the
header to the pipe it was excellent. The problem was Hatori went to the
newer style pipes that the header slides inside of the neck of the pipe
with the o-ring. The aluminum tubing used on the NMP header was not as
bullet proof in this application. Remember the Teflon when hot would
flex. Now the header and the pipe are attached to each other. The header
slides inside the pipe and the result is there is still movement but the
stress on the thin wall aluminum piping is higher. Breaking, and the
header would get a grove worn in it. Actually the o-ring would pinch the
aluminum tubing to a smaller diameter and the header-pipe combo would
leak. The added stress of vibration and the direct connection many folks
would break the header tubing.

				The new header is similar to the Hatori
in terms of connection to the pipe. So that swedging ( shrinking of the
dia at the o-ring)  problem and the leaking should be solved. In my
setup its working well on the proto-type headers. Next issue is the
tubing being stronger to take the stress of the direct connection. The
solution is kind of unique and is working well. Some more testing and
maybe a few tweaks and its going to be a very good replacement for the
Hatori 822 and 823.

				Troy

				From:
nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill
Glaze
				Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 9:05
AM
				To: General pattern discussion
				Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking
For Props & Header

				Troy:

				Will the new header stay attached to the
1.40 L? Bill Glaze

				----- Original Message ----- 

				From: Troy Newman
<mailto:troy at troynewman.net>  

				To: General pattern discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

				Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 12:35
AM

				Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking
For Props & Header

				I don't believe there is such a prop
made as the 18.1-11 Narrow. It doesn't exist. I may be wrong but I have
been involved with running and testing the APC props in the 18.1 series
and WPN series.  There is a prop that is designated as just 18-11 and
this has a narrower blade than the 18.1-11.  The 18.1 series of props
have a very wide blade. The 18-11 is more like a 17-13 or 17-12 in terms
of blade shape but its 18in dia and 11 pitch.

				I know there is a 16.5-12 I just pulled
one out in my box-o-props and it has a profile like a narrow prop very
similar to the 17-10N...however it doesn't have the designation as
16.5-12 narrow. It's just called the 16.5-12. If you handed it to me
with the name scratched off and said it was a 16.5-12 I would have said
it was a Narrow.  Same goes for the 18-11 regular it's a narrow
essentially as well.

				I don't know for sure why the "W"
designation or the "N" for narrow is left off of some props and added to
others. I think it has a lot to do with the equations and program that
is used to create the prop profile. 

				To sum up the props APC has the prop if
it is or has been produced.  I don't think Fred throws any of the molds
away. So if a prop was produced at one time it might be possible with
some convincing to get some of them produced again. I have been to the
factory where the props are produced. It amazing how they are produced,
and the quantity and quality of props produced for a given size.

				You may not be asking for it by the
proper name/designation....the 16.5-12 (is actually like a narrow) and
the 18-11 is like a narrow version of the 18.1-11

				As for Headers.....the new header is in
testing and is performing well. The jury is still out, we are working
hard to insure the bugs are worked out. Right things are going well and
real progress has been made in the last couple months. It will be sooner
rather than later from the looks of things on the new headers.

				I hope this helps answer the questions

				Troy Newman

				From:
nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
rjo626 at aol.com
				Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 8:20 PM
				To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
				Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For
Props & Header

				     Hello all! I'm looking for APC
18.1x11 narrow, and 16.5x12 narrow. Also,

				anyone have a good NMP pattern header
they're willing to part with / sell? I've 

				tried Central Hobbies and APC with no
luck. Thanks a bunch!

				     Later!

				            RJO

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