[NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props & Header
mjfrederick at cox.net
mjfrederick at cox.net
Thu Nov 5 07:52:27 AKST 2009
I ran an NMP header on a 140 DZ for a couple years with no issues
whatsoever. As most people are aware, the 140 DZ had some of the
toughest vibration to tame of any of the YS engines. Here's what I did
(no, I did not use any Permatex): Install one extra copper gasket (I had
heard the issue may have been with the threaded piece bottoming out in
the engine head), and I also re-tightened the header as tight as I
possibly could after getting the engine up to running temp (something to
do with differential expansion of all the different metals used to mount
the headers). I never once had the header come loose, even when the
Genesis did a triple lindy into the base of a huge oak tree. The head
wasn't atached to the engine anymore, but I'll be damned if that NMP
header wasn't as tight as ever (twisted, but still tight).
Matt
On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 7:54 AM, Bill Glaze wrote:
In my case, it's a fairly simple problem. The 1.40L vibrates so
much, that the stud unscrews from the head, leaving the header dangling
in space alongside the exhaust port. I have about a foot of Teflon
tubing between the outlet of the header, and the inlet of the Hatori
pipe. I also have their (NMP) header brace in place to try to help
stabilize the header.
The engine has already, after about 6 flights, broken a Johnson Header;
that's why I am trying the NMP. I got the last NMP Central had in
stock, and they said that the person who was making them is not doing
so any more. (That's what I was told, anyway.) The Hatori pipe is
sitting on one mount, about halfway back on the pipe, and the whole
outfit is free to move back and forth along with the engine movement.
I had hoped that, with the entire mess moving, it would permit the stud
to stay screwed in the head. I'm worried lest the stud strip the
threads in the head. The instructions say that "some people have had
the header loosen" and to try a certain type of Permatex form-a-gasket
material. I've used this stuff before when I had a racing engine
business, but I certainly never used it in this type of application.
It seems to me that the entire problem is caused by the excessive
engine vibration that the 1.40L is known for.
Any help?
Bill Glaze
----- Original Message -----
From: Troy Newman <mailto:troy at troynewman.net>
<mailto:troy at troynewman.net>
To: General pattern discussion <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 5:39 PM
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props & Header
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
I don’t know what you mean by will it stay attached?
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
The new header is a wrap around style header like the previous NMP
and the Hatori 822 style headers.
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
All of the 120-170 engines have the same head configuration (meaning
same angle) and same thread size. SO the new header will fit all
120-170 engines. <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
There is one exception. The 120AC has the air box on the back of the
head. This prevents the use of the wrap around style headers on this
engine. Other than that they are all the same.
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
The NMP header was a really good header for the application. When we
were using Teflon tubing to connect the header to the pipe it was
excellent. The problem was Hatori went to the newer style pipes that
the header slides inside of the neck of the pipe with the o-ring. The
aluminum tubing used on the NMP header was not as bullet proof in
this application. Remember the Teflon when hot would flex. Now the
header and the pipe are attached to each other. The header slides
inside the pipe and the result is there is still movement but the
stress on the thin wall aluminum piping is higher. Breaking, and the
header would get a grove worn in it. Actually the o-ring would pinch
the aluminum tubing to a smaller diameter and the header-pipe combo
would leak. The added stress of vibration and the direct connection
many folks would break the header tubing.
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
The new header is similar to the Hatori in terms of connection to the
pipe. So that swedging ( shrinking of the dia at the o-ring) problem
and the leaking should be solved. In my setup its working well on the
proto-type headers. Next issue is the tubing being stronger to take
the stress of the direct connection. The solution is kind of unique
and is working well. Some more testing and maybe a few tweaks and its
going to be a very good replacement for the Hatori 822 and 823.
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Troy <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill
Glaze
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 9:05 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props & Header
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Troy: <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Will the new header stay attached to the 1.40 L? Bill Glaze
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
----- Original Message -----
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
From: Troy Newman <mailto:troy at troynewman.net>
<mailto:troy at troynewman.net>
To: General pattern discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 12:35 AM
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props & Header
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
I don’t believe there is such a prop made as the 18.1-11 Narrow. It
doesn’t exist. I may be wrong but I have been involved with running
and testing the APC props in the 18.1 series and WPN series. There
is a prop that is designated as just 18-11 and this has a narrower
blade than the 18.1-11. The 18.1 series of props have a very wide
blade. The 18-11 is more like a 17-13 or 17-12 in terms of blade
shape but its 18in dia and 11 pitch.
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
I know there is a 16.5-12 I just pulled one out in my box-o-props
and it has a profile like a narrow prop very similar to the
17-10N
however it doesn’t have the designation as 16.5-12 narrow.
It’s just called the 16.5-12. If you handed it to me with the name
scratched off and said it was a 16.5-12 I would have said it was a
Narrow. Same goes for the 18-11 regular it’s a narrow essentially
as well. <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
I don’t know for sure why the “W” designation or the “N” for narrow
is left off of some props and added to others. I think it has a lot
to do with the equations and program that is used to create the
prop profile. <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
To sum up the props APC has the prop if it is or has been produced.
I don’t think Fred throws any of the molds away. So if a prop was
produced at one time it might be possible with some convincing to
get some of them produced again. I have been to the factory where
the props are produced. It amazing how they are produced, and the
quantity and quality of props produced for a given size.
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
You may not be asking for it by the proper name/designation
.the
16.5-12 (is actually like a narrow) and the 18-11 is like a narrow
version of the 18.1-11 <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
As for Headers
..the new header is in testing and is performing
well. The jury is still out, we are working hard to insure the bugs
are worked out. Right things are going well and real progress has
been made in the last couple months. It will be sooner rather than
later from the looks of things on the new headers.
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
I hope this helps answer the questions
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Troy Newman <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
rjo626 at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 8:20 PM
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking For Props & Header
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Hello all! I'm looking for APC 18.1x11 narrow, and 16.5x12
narrow. Also, <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
anyone have a good NMP pattern header they're willing to part with
/ sell? I've <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
tried Central Hobbies and APC with no luck. Thanks a bunch!
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Later! <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
RJO <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
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