[NSRCA-discussion] 12X Failure

Tue Nov 3 14:44:59 AKST 2009

No worse than that, Matt,

The 12X batt is old NiMH and the charger will destroy it if used as directed.  Instead follow the guidelines of a JR bulletin which wasn't distributed to owners of the radio. 

Basically the bulletin says to use the supplied charger only while monitoring the battery temperature and disconnecting if they get hot.  Also don't leave it connected for more than 10 hours even though it is supposed to be designed to shut itself off after that period of time.

When was the last time I had 10 hours to sit in my workshop and fell a battery<G>?

G
---- rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote: 

=============

Troy et al,

I put a piece of sheer cloth around the bat to make it a snug fit. I leave a pair of tabs on the cloth to allow easy pulling when needed
I haven't had the need to pull the bat but once in my 10X, about 6 years ago when the original bought the farm. 
Replaced the bat with NiMH from Radical and haven't had any issues since. BTW, the original was about 2 years old

That bat cost about 25$ as I recall but I had to solder the connector. No biggie. TX bat still works like new holding the same charge pretty much.
I still get at least ten flights before it drops to 9.6 where I recharge

So are you saying the battery on the 12X (just bought 1 of these) is Li-Ion and the charger sux?

MattK

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Newman <troy at troynewman.net>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:18 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 12X Failure

Could be....Some clear tape, not packing tape but that decorate and
epair tape would keep the door closed. This stuff has a silicone based
dhesive and works great for all modeling needs.
This is great stuff
ttp://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=MMM190

t can be found at ACE hardware and Tru-Value also....Sorry Lowes and
ome Depot don't have it usually. I have a great ACE by the house.
Troy
----Original Message-----
rom: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Jon Lowe
ent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 4:13 PM
o: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
ubject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 12X Failure
I don't remove my pack either, but they still get loose.  I'm very 
areful with my equipment, so abuse is not the answer.
Frankly, the double sided tape is not that great of an idea.  The pins 
n the transmitter do not have a large engagement range with the 
onnector in the cassette to begin with.  All the tape does is move the 
assette out on the pins.  I think properly securing the door, and 
dding something to squeeze the cassette in is a better way to do it.
My guess is Futaba 9Z had a better door latch arrangement than the 10x 
nd 12x.
Jon Lowe
-----Original Message-----
rom: Troy Newman <troy at troynewman.net>
o: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
ent: Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:55 pm
ubject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 12X Failure

ohn,
I never had a problem with the 10X or the 12X with the battery cassette
oming loose. I don't remove the cassette from the TX except on very
are occasions. I can see if a guy is swapping out packs all the time
hat the cassette can become loose.
Personally I like the cassette idea. This was something the Futaba 9Z
ad and I liked it.
If any of you guys put double sided tape in the TX battery bay use a
mall piece, as it will make removing the cassette difficult. I would
uggest up near the connectors maybe 1/2" to the side of the connectors
ith a piece about 1/4" wide and 1/2" long or so. This way the cassette
ill stay in place and connected but not provide too much stick to keep
t secured forever. Another big note the double side foam tape needs to
e very thin like the Dubro stuff. This way the foam is not so thick to
eep the connectors pins from seating 100%.
For charging I use a standard type wall charger that does about C/10.
hat I will actually do most often is come in from flying and stick the
X on charge at say 300-400ma. Then after about 3-4 hrs I will check and
ee if the pack is getting warm. It goes like this come in from flying
bout 4pm and stick it on charge. Then after dinner at 6-7pm I'll check
t to see if it is warm...not hot warm.
Then I reduce the charge rate to something like 125ma and leave it on
ll night long. Battery doesn't get above a warm condition and works
ery well. Personally I think a charge rate of about 180-200ma for about
2hrs will do the same thing.
The newer NIMH cells seem to respond very well at low charge
ates....say 75-80% of C/10 and leave them on for 12-16hrs. The life of
he packs is literally many years doing it this way. I have been running
ome 4 cell 2300mah packs in some pattern models since 2006-2007 and
erforming like new. I have been treating the NIMH in the TX the same
ay.

roy
-----Original Message-----
rom: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Jon Lowe
ent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 6:37 AM
o: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
ubject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 12X Failure
Troy, thanks for posting the link.  They should have mailed it to every
egistered 12x owner.  I don't know why they made such a complicated
harger if it doesn't peak detect.  Think I will go back to a standard
all wart at a lower charge rate for overnite charging.  High capacity
iMh cells (anything over 1650 mah) do NOT like to be overcharged.  In
act Radical RC recommends charging them at less than C/10.  Their
iscussion on high capacity NiMh cells is a good read.  See the
iscussion about 2500mah cells about halfway down this page:
http://www.radicalrc.com/shop/?shop=1&cart=3170843&cat=20
I'm glad Horizon FINALLY addressed the problem of the battery coming
oose in the transmitter which is at the bottom of the link. The
attery cassette doesn't have to move far to have it come loose and
ose contact.   I lost an airplane early this year (not a 2m) because
f it.  It has been an issue since they put the cassette in the 10x and
arried the design over to the 12x.  I know of several people who lost
irplanes because the pack came loose and the transmitter shut off
uring flight.  The way they have the charge plug going directly into
he pack causes the pack to loosen when you pull the plug out after
harging.  I solved the problem by drilling a small hole in the bottom
f the transmitter body and thru the latch tab on the battery door and
ut a tiny sheet metal screw in holding the door shut.  A friend just
ses a piece of packing tape to hold his door solidly shut.  The door
esign aggravates the issue because the latch doesn't really lock
olidly into place.  I wish they had gone back to the tried and true
attery lead and plug design.
I emailed Horizon about the issue and never received a reply.  My Dad,
 JR Team Member, did likewise, and did not receive a reply.  In fact,
 have NEVER received a reply to emails sent to Horizon.  However,
heir service department is second to none.  Turnaround is really fast,
nd they do a good job.
Jon Lowe
-----Original Message-----
rom: glmiller3 at suddenlink.net
o: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
ent: Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:34 am
ubject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 12X Failure

roy,
I just actually read the battery bulletin linked in you note.  I like
he 12X
attery even less now.
So I guess in Japan they have 10 hours to sit around their shop
ontinuously
onitoring their transmitter batteries temperature and intermittently
hecking
t's actual voltage....well welcome to america- I don't!
Any one know of a good replacement battery system for the 12 X?
G
--- Troy Newman <troy at troynewman.net> wrote:
=============
ry a different TX battery.
I have heard reports of this screen flashing issue with bad TX
atteries. It works fine in the system menu because it's not
ransmitting. As soon as it tries to transmit the battery can't handle
he load. If you have a 10X the battery will fit in the 12X and work
ust fine.
The PC program is not data safe. Data Safe as a product was a Horizon
obby product that was an aftermarket product that saved the program as
 file on your PC....It was not a JR Japan product.
The 12X comes with a program that allows you to back up and edit the
rograms on the PC. It came with your 12X as a free accessory. It is 12X
pecific. Works very very well.
The reason data safe doesn't work is because the 12X was not around when
ata Safe or Data Safe Ultra was written by a 3rd party vendor.
By the way the 12X program only does the 12X, but is very cool in that
ou can see and print all settings, and even edit setting right on the
C then load it back into the TX.

R Japan has another program that has the same look and feel as the 12X
rogram, but it works with the older radios. It looks exactly the same
ut because it goes backwards in compatibility it doesn't do the 12X.
Onto your 12X it's not a bad a idea to have HH check it out, but I would
et it's a battery issue. On another note the charger that comes with
our 12X is not a peak detection charger...even though it kind of looks
ike one and the manual seems to imply that it is. This charger should
ot be used on the 12X battery for than 10hrs. The battery will become
ery hot and will shorten its life. A bulletin was issues earlier this
ear regarding the charger.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Support.aspx?ProdID=JRP12001
If your charger was left on for 2-3 days like some folks have reported
efore the light when solid, and or the battery got very hot this could
e the reason for the battery failure. Contact HH and they will be able
o help you. In the mean time try a good 10X battery cartridge if you
ave one. If not let me know offline and I'll send you mine from my 10X
o hold you over or at least get everything off the 12X you have.
Troy Newman
eam JR / Horizon Hobby
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