[NSRCA-discussion] stirring the pot..;)

Tue May 19 05:14:25 AKDT 2009

Chuck,
“southern genetic mutations”…      Oh so that's it! And all this time I thought it was just because you guys could fly for 10 months (or more) out of the year as opposed to being huddled up in the house trying to stay warm all winter. Now I'm scared. I've seen some of these "mutations" up close (I used to work on a circle track pit crew) and I don't know if I'd want to put myself into THAT group if I were you! LOL

John Pavlick

--- On Mon, 5/18/09, Atwood, Mark <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com> wrote:

From: Atwood, Mark <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] stirring the pot..;)
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 11:30 PM

“southern genetic mutations”…     See Arch, I told you when you left West Virginia you could fit in down south. J

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hochhalter
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 11:24 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] stirring the pot..;)

I think that there is definitely a clear picture of how our districts differ through this discussion.  In D6, those of us in masters are very aware of what it takes to fly FAI.  We look up to our FAi pilots for their knowledge, guidance, support, encouragement and the challenge of flying against them in cmopetition.  

I flew FAI right after p-09 came out so I WOULD NOT POINT OUT.  I had so much support from the FAI pilots encouraging and offering suggestions.  Yes, we flew F on sunday and I managed to not zero anything.... I had some 3's but still, I understood the challenge and accepted it.

There is not one pilot in our district that is not flying FAI because of our contest structure... in fact, it has strengthened our district and the number of top pilots.  In D6, we have one of the largest contingents of NATS pilots around.. even with a 19 hour drive to get there.  We support, encourage and eagerly await our districts pilots trip to NATS and their success.

NATS is a chance to test yourself against your peers on a different stage.... looking at D6 and their track record of developing top pilots, I can’t condemn them for the way they run their contests, seems to produce winners to me. 

If you want to argue superior southern genetic mutations, then of course that is another thread altogether.

Chuck Hochhalter

From: krishlan fitzsimmons 

Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:22 PM

To: General pattern discussion 

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] stirring the pot..;)

IMO, for many, the point of flying pattern isn't to go to the nats. If this was the case, we would have about 125 pattern pilots. The point of flying pattern to many in my district varies, but not many want to go to the nats. Now this being said, I do want to go, still in Masters this year, but next year I will fly FAI. My thought is that if I want to fly 2 rounds of F at a contest, I can choose to do this, but they will be my throw away rounds. The pilot who doesn't want to practice F shouldn't be forced to fly it, or have his rounds thrown away just because the pilots who go to the nats want local contests flown how the nats are. 
I would assume that most FAI nats pilots don't care about the trophy anyway, so we could judge them all 6 rounds of F if they want.  As a masters pilot, I like judging the F sequence. I support it being flown, and judged at locals, however, I don't think it should be forced to be flown at a local.  Just my opinion. 
Think about this, try the system of flying both sequences at a contest, now throw in us, or imagine yourself being one of the masters guys who want to move up. Would you want to be forced to learn two sequences just to move up and fly a contest? Or be forced to take two zero rounds because you just moved up and haven't had time to learn two sequences? Many would stay in Masters I would guess. 
Chris 

--- On Mon, 5/18/09, Archie Stafford <astafford at swtexas.net> wrote:

From: Archie Stafford <astafford at swtexas.net>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] stirring the pot..;)
To: "'General pattern discussion'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 4:14 PM

Well, I’m probably going to get crucified for this email, but that’s OK..won’t be the first time.

First, pattern is SUPPOSED to be competition.  And unfortunately whether we like it or not, at some level the point is geared toward the NATS.  If guys don’t want to fly 2 FAI schedules, fine, then drop back and fly Masters.  Frankly this years Master’s sequence is tougher than the P09 sequence.  The guys who do fly FAI and do plan on attending the NATS should get the opportunity to fly both at a local contest.   They are the guys that deserve a chance to be as ready for the NATS as possible.  The quality of flying in these districts flying both has GREATLY improved and the results show it at the NATS. 

All of these recent emails have been about what people can’t do, instead of accepting it should be a challenge.  Some maneuvers are meant to be tough.  Masters should not be an easy sequence for someone who finishes 31st (just an example)at the NATS.  Even the guys who win the NATS in the lower classes should not be flying 9 and 9.5 on every maneuver.  This is supposed to be a challenge.  If the sequence you are flying is too tough, then the provisions are there to drop back and fly a lower class.  Life does get in the way sometimes…I missed all of last year, but that doesn’t mean we make sequences so that the guy who can only fly 3 or 4 times a month should be able to fly it well.  I’ve been working on this sequence committee stuff and sometimes after reading some of the stuff, I think we should adopt the old Novice sequence for Masters so that it is easy enough for everyone to fly.  

I’ve seen way too many times lower class guys that start a season having a rough time, but with help and practice by the end of the year they are flying it well and have learned what they are supposed to have learned and are ready to move on and are excited about the improvements they have seen.  We need to quit making sequences and rules for the guys who have a tough time learning something and make it challenging for the people at the top of that given class.  There is a reason that you don’t have to move out of lower classes until you are ready and why there are provisions for people to drop back and fly lower classes if life gets in the way or for whatever reason.  

We keep coming up with reasons why we shouldn’t have tougher sequences, but honestly that is part of the reason IMAC grew so quickly.  People were scared of the unknowns and tougher sequences at first, but they also accepted them as a challenge.  And a lot of guys have continued to fly IMAC for this reason.  Many pattern people have jumped over as well.  I don’t think I’ve ever heard an IMAc person come over to pattern saying IMAC was too hard.  But I have met a  lot of IMAC guys that continue to fly IMAC because the sequences change and they are very challenging.  There is no rule that says if you are uncomfortable with a maneuver that you can’t bail out of it and take a zero.  There are guys complaining about maneuvers that I doubt they have even ever tried.  I don’t think Masters should be as tough as the F sequences in FAI, but it should be a challenging class.  The lower classes should be geared toward people learning the proper
 skills and techniques to get them ready for Masters and if they choose to, to move on to FAI.  

I didn’t get to fly last year hardly at all because I was overseas, and when I first flew this years Masters sequence it was tough and I had a lot to learn about it, but I kept flying it and learned a lot about it.  We need to get back to remembering that this is a competition and that the people who fly it, fly it to get better, even if they have no aspirations of winning.  We can’t keep dumbing down sequences just to make it easier for someone.  The older Novice and Sportsman sequences were much tougher than what guys are flying today and people flew them with not nearly as good of equipment.  At the contest in Crowley this weekend, the winds were swirling on Sunday and I’m sure, had we had 3 loops in the sequence, it would’ve been interesting, but guys would’ve learned from it and at the next contest would’ve done a better job.  That is the point, we should be challenged when we fly.

 I think we will run off a lot more guys by making things too easy than we ever will discourage from starting by making it too hard.  The people who want to compete are going to compete and those that don’t wont.  

Just my .02

Heading to the field,

Arch

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dave Burton
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:37 PM
To: 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] stirring the pot..;)

I hope flying the F schedule at local contest doesn’t spread to D2. I have zero interest in learning two FAI schedules and if it happens here I’ll join the herds of people flying Masters. Isn’t it in the rules to fly F only in the Nationals or Championship contest?
Dave Burton

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hunt
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:57 PM
To: pattern discussion
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] stirring the pot..;)

I have taken note that since we started flying the F pattern regularly on Sunday at local contests (couple years now), we have been scoring it in such a way that it is simply treated as a 6 round contest in which any combination of the F and P sequences may be the drop rounds.  I think the concensus originaly being that not everyone is comfortable flying the F, allowing those that only practice the P to be able to drop both F rounds (usually 2 F rounds on Sunday).

Hypothetically, it could be run and tabulated in such a way that in a typical 6 round contest of 4 P's and 2 F's, you would drop one P and one F.  More of a Prelims and Finals style.

It's not any serious concern to me, but I am curious, what is the concensus among FAI pilots now?  Just keep it the same, or consider changing?

-mark

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