[NSRCA-discussion] Masters Judging

Thu May 7 05:40:23 AKDT 2009

Mike if you recall we did that one year at the D4 Champs with 16 masters pilots, BUT...to get a "Champion" we flew 4 rounds of the A and B classes, and then took the top 4 from A and the top 4 from B and put them in the "Gold" bracket, and the rest in the "Silver" and flew rounds 5 and 6, with a carry over score from the first 4 rounds.  

It was sort of like having a finals, but everyone still got to fly rounds 5 and 6.  The gold bracket placed 1st through 8th, and the silver 9th - 16th.  It worked very well, and I didn't get any complaints that I recall.  

BUT...that only helped with the judging pools.  It did not help with the over time management of the contest.  You still have a VERY VERY long masters sequence to get through.  If we can shave 60 seconds off a flight...that saves over 90 minutes in a contest like that.  That's substantial.

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mike mueller
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 9:33 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Judging

 Hey Anthony. We take the masters group put all the names in a hat and pull them out one at a time to form the 2 groups. Group 1 judges group 2. The pairings are all in the luck of the draw. The awards are best done when the CD has palques with pictures. Then they have placings for Masters A and Masters B made up at the contest. What else can we do when over half of the guys showing up locally are in masters? So far it's worked well. Mike

--- On Thu, 5/7/09, Anthony Romano <anthonyr105 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Anthony Romano <anthonyr105 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Judging
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 7:32 AM
> How do you work scoring with two groups in Masters? How do
> all pilots get equal exposure? Two groups seems like the
> best solution.
> 
>  
> 
> Anthony
> 
> 
>  
> > Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 09:23:55 -0700
> > From: mups1953 at yahoo.com
> > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org;
> atwoodm at paragon-inc.com
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters
> Sequence
> > 
> > 
> > Mark we have plans for splitting Masters into 2 groups
> around here. Anything else is a disaster. Mike
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Atwood, Mark
> <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > From: Atwood, Mark
> <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
> > > Subject: RE: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011
> Masters Sequence
> > > To: "General pattern discussion"
> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>,
> "mups1953 at yahoo.com" <mups1953 at yahoo.com>
> > > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 10:57 AM
> > > Hear Hear!!
> > > 
> > > I love flying long sequences...hate judging them.
> There
> > > needs to be a balance. Not just for the sake of
> the judges,
> > > but also to accommodate the length of the
> contest. 
> > > 
> > > At a big D4/D5 contest we'll usually have 5-6
> FAI
> > > pilots and 15 or 16 masters pilots. Currently the
> masters
> > > pattern is a MINIMUM of 10 minutes per pilot
> (maybe not in
> > > the air, but you have to really have people on
> their toes to
> > > even get 6 flights in an hour). With 16 masters
> pilots,
> > > that's 2 hours and 40 minutes of flying per
> round if
> > > you're humpin'. Six rounds means 16 hours
> of
> > > flying for JUST masters guys. Assuming you have 2
> lines,
> > > that means one of those lines is dedicated to
> Masters for
> > > the entire contest AND assume you have 16 hours
> to fly.
> > > 
> > > We never have 16 hours to fly. Rarely can we get
> people to
> > > stay until 6pm on Sunday (9am - 6pm with a lunch
> break both
> > > days) and most fields have the sun in the box
> either in the
> > > morning or afternoon which shortens the flying
> day even
> > > more.
> > > 
> > > Now add to those woes that you only have 5-6 FAI
> guys
> > > judging. You need 32 man hours of judging, so
> even if you
> > > mix in a group of Advanced flyers it's a
> loooong time in
> > > the chair.
> > > 
> > > Bottom line, regardless of whether it's P-09
> (probably
> > > not a good choice at this point) or a home brewed
> > > pattern...it needs to follow the FAI trend of
> getting a
> > > little shorter. 
> > > 
> > > My .02
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
> On Behalf
> > > Of Archie Stafford
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:38 AM
> > > To: mups1953 at yahoo.com; 'General pattern
> > > discussion'
> > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011
> Masters
> > > Sequence
> > > 
> > > Verne,
> > > 
> > > This started when I suggested to the sequence
> committee
> > > that we need to
> > > shorten the masters pattern. Flying it is fine,
> but I
> > > think we need to take
> > > into account the guys who have to sit and judge
> it. I
> > > heard several guys in
> > > FAI judging this weekend about how long a
> sequence it is. 
> > > Which wouldn't be
> > > near as bad except for the fact Masters is
> usually the
> > > largest class at most
> > > contests. I think we need to consider the length
> of time
> > > in the judges
> > > chair for those that have to judge it as well.
> > > 
> > > Arch
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
> On Behalf
> > > Of mike mueller
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:31 AM
> > > To: General pattern discussion
> > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011
> Masters
> > > Sequence
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The current pattern puts E. guys at a bit of a
> > > disadvantage. It pushes my
> > > setup a little further than I prefer. It is a
> great pattern
> > > and I compliment
> > > the designers for having a nice flow. Mike
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- On Tue, 5/5/09, verne at twmi.rr.com
> > > <verne at twmi.rr.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > From: verne at twmi.rr.com
> <verne at twmi.rr.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of
> 2011 Masters
> > > Sequence
> > > > To: "General pattern discussion"
> > > <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > > > Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 10:24 AM
> > > > If it sounded as though I were complaining
> that the
> > > current
> > > > Masters schedule takes too long, I
> wasn't. Just
> > > > commenting that it takes a lot longer than
> the
> > > previous one.
> > > > For me, eight minutes from takeoff to
> landing approach
> > > (my
> > > > timer is started on takeoff and is almost
> always
> > > beeping
> > > > during my landing). I fly at what I would
> call a
> > > medium
> > > > speed most of the time. 
> > > > 
> > > > I'm also against flying the FAI-P
> schedule.
> > > I'd
> > > > rather fly a home-grown variant that we
> create
> > > ourselves.
> > > > 
> > > > Verne Koester
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ---- Stuart Chale
> <schale at optonline.net> wrote: 
> > > > >
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