[NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence

Tue May 5 09:08:35 AKDT 2009

Yes. It's a flying maneuver rather than a stalled hard to judge out of
control gyration requiring recovery.
Jim Hiller

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Archie
Stafford
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:05 AM
To: 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence

Steve,

A loop with a 4 point at the top or a slow roll over the top is NOT a
difficult maneuvers.  It is not tougher than an Avalanche.  It might be
tougher to do properly, but I think at some point we need to quit making
patterns tougher with the hopes of not running people off.  Several years
ago people were against the reverse avalanche, but it turned out to not be
that tough.  Until people actually fly the maneuvers you can't really say
how tough they are.  A 4 point at the top of a loop is not a tough maneuver
to perform, maybe to get 10's, but to fly it, is not difficult.  I think we
need to look at putting more maneuvers like that into the sequences.

Arch

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:58 AM
To: General pattern discussion; mups1953 at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence

Hear Hear!!

I love flying long sequences...hate judging them.  There needs to be a
balance.  Not just for the sake of the judges, but also to accommodate the
length of the contest.

At a big D4/D5 contest we'll usually have 5-6 FAI pilots and 15 or 16
masters pilots.  Currently the masters pattern is a MINIMUM of 10 minutes
per pilot (maybe not in the air, but you have to really have people on their
toes to even get 6 flights in an hour).  With 16 masters pilots, that's 2
hours and 40 minutes of flying per round if you're humpin'.   Six rounds
means 16 hours of flying for JUST masters guys.  Assuming you have 2 lines,
that means one of those lines is dedicated to Masters for the entire contest
AND assume you have 16 hours to fly.

We never have 16 hours to fly.  Rarely can we get people to stay until 6pm
on Sunday (9am - 6pm with a lunch break both days) and most fields have the
sun in the box either in the morning or afternoon which shortens the flying
day even more.

Now add to those woes that you only have 5-6 FAI guys judging.  You need 32
man hours of judging, so even if you mix in a group of Advanced flyers it's
a loooong time in the chair.

Bottom line, regardless of whether it's P-09 (probably not a good choice at
this point) or a home brewed pattern...it needs to follow the FAI trend of
getting a little shorter.

My .02

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Archie
Stafford
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:38 AM
To: mups1953 at yahoo.com; 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence

Verne,

This started when I suggested to the sequence committee that we need to
shorten the masters pattern.  Flying it is fine, but I think we need to take
into account the guys who have to sit and judge it.  I heard several guys in
FAI judging this weekend about how long a sequence it is.  Which wouldn't be
near as bad except for the fact Masters is usually the largest class at most
contests.  I think we need to consider the length of time in the judges
chair for those that have to judge it as well.

Arch

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mike mueller
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:31 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence

 The current pattern puts E. guys at a bit of a disadvantage. It pushes my
setup a little further than I prefer. It is a great pattern and I compliment
the designers for having a nice flow. Mike

--- On Tue, 5/5/09, verne at twmi.rr.com <verne at twmi.rr.com> wrote:

> From: verne at twmi.rr.com <verne at twmi.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence
> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 10:24 AM
> If it sounded as though I were complaining that the current
> Masters schedule takes too long, I wasn't. Just
> commenting that it takes a lot longer than the previous one.
> For me, eight minutes from takeoff to landing approach (my
> timer is started on takeoff and is almost always beeping
> during my landing). I fly at what I would call a medium
> speed most of the time.
>
> I'm also against flying the FAI-P schedule. I'd
> rather fly a home-grown variant that we create ourselves.
>
> Verne Koester
>
>
> ---- Stuart Chale <schale at optonline.net> wrote:
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