[NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
Jon Lowe
jonlowe at aol.com
Sat May 2 09:49:12 AKDT 2009
What mount are you using? Hyde? Budd? If Hyde, which model? How
tight is your nose ring? Too tight can transfer a lot of vibration.
Should be a loose fit on the front of the engine.
I've done some testing with a Hanger 9 current meter, and your engine
off draw is about right. I see around .9 to 1 amp at idle, and 1.6 to
2 amps at full throttle, using a Hyde mount with a YS 1.70. This, of
course, is on the ground. How airloads dampen the oscillations, I have
no idea.
Have you checked your aileron servos for dead spots around neutral?
Are your servo gears getting sloppy? They can start oscillating with
the engine running, and really kick up the amps. Put a servo tester on
them with a slow sweep and see if there is any hesitation in movement
of the servo thruout its travel. I've had a single aileron servo draw
1.5 amps by itself if it started self oscillating due to a worn pot.
I'd get rid of the long arms. Are you at about 130% or more ATV at
high rates? If not, do that first to get more travel.
Jon Lowe
-----Original Message-----
From: colin chariandy <cchariandy at yahoo.ca>
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; glmiller3 at suddenlink.net; Ed Alt
<ed_alt at hotmail.com>
Sent: Sat, 2 May 2009 11:16 am
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
I know most are probabl
y fed up of this but I've got some info that may
help others...
After changing the regulator, battery and throttle servo I checked the
regulator load as follows:
Bench - 160mA.
Feild, Engine off, windy day - 160-200mA
Engine idle - 1.6A!!
Mid power (roughest) - 2.0A!!!!
I tried to isolate the high draw by holding each control. When I held
the two ailerons it dropped to 680mA from 2.0A.
This year, in an attempt to speed up my snaps I changed to dubro super
long servo arms.
I'll need to improve the settings on the engine to smooth it out a bit
and/or go back to the shorter arms.
With this set-up I would have to consume 300-400mAhrs per flight. I
typically fly 4-5 flights....that's too close to the limit for a
2000mAhr pack and could easily have cost me the plane if I wasnt
checking between flights. For what ever the reason the rx shut down on
the ground....I am very grateful
Anyone using long arms with big 4Cs, ensure that you arent taking too
much out of your packs.
Now...any advice on how to smooth out the mid range on the 170? Top end
is amazing, idle is reliable...what should I change?
Colin.
--- On Tue, 4/28/09, Ed Alt <ed_alt at ho
tmail.com> wrote:
From: Ed Alt <ed_alt at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
To: cchariandy at yahoo.ca, nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org,
glmiller3 at suddenlink.net
Received: Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 11:15 AM
Handle the problem as you see fit, I've done my best to give you advice
that has always served me well. Good luck!
Ed
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 05:19:28 -0700
From: cchariandy at yahoo.ca
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; glmiller3 at suddenlink.net;
ed_alt at hotmail.com
Additionally, if the average for flight was 0.16A then we would only
consume 21mAhr in a typical 8min flight. Not the case, it's more like
150mAhr.
Colin
--- On Tue, 4/28/09, colin chariandy <cchariandy at yahoo.ca> wrote:
From: colin chariandy <cchariandy at yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>,
glmiller3 at suddenlink.net, "Ed Alt" <ed_alt at hotmail.com>
Received: Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 8:12 AM
Binding in the neutral position????
Everything is free, I can't find any mechanical problems.
--- On Tue, 4/28/09, Ed Alt <ed_alt at hotmail.com>=2
0wrote:
From: Ed Alt <ed_alt at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
To: "colin chariandy" <cchariandy at yahoo.ca>, "General pattern
discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>, glmiller3 at suddenlink.net
Received: Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 12:28 AM
The idle current of 0.16A is about as high as your avwerage current for
model in flight should be. Something is binding.
----- Original Message -----
From: colin chariandy
To: General pattern discussion ; glmiller3 at suddenlink.net ; Ed Alt
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
Just tried the same using the regulator from my back-up (same except
not switched) and a new throttle servo.
Throttle servo amps increased to 0.35A max.
Although the package was labelled 6.0V the output is 5.7V and min
output was 5.5V.
After a minute of servo wagging it was hotter than the original.
--- On Mon, 4/27/09, colin chariandy <cchariandy at yahoo.ca> wrote:
From: colin chariandy <cchariandy at yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>,
glmiller3 at suddenlink.net, "Ed Alt" <ed_alt at hotmail.com>
Received: Monday, April 27,
2009, 9:22 PM
Ok, although this is a 1 year old airplane with 150 flights I checked
the current draw after the regulator with all servos energized and the
engine off.
I used a "watts up" meter that logs peaks (but I'm not sure what the
sampling fequency is).
Idle current - 0.16A.
Throttle servo movement max - 0.25A (doesnt seem like a problem but
it's a little more noisy than a new one).
All other servos - 0.22-0.24 A max.
Moving all servos together rapidly - 1.72A max.
Regulator output min - 5.82V
I did this (moved all the servos rapidly for 1 min) and checked the
little heat sink at the end of the regulator chip...quite warm, almost
hot.
I may try this again with the engine running and compare the results.
Colin.
--- On Mon, 4/27/09, Ed Alt <ed_alt at hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Ed Alt <ed_alt at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>,
"colin chariandy " <cchariandy at yahoo.ca>, glmiller3 at suddenlink.net
Received: Monday, April 27, 2009, 6:24 PM
This is easy to resolve. Nothing high tech is needed. One by one,
move your controls and carefully watch to see if it looks l
ike the any
of them are straining at the end of their maximum travel. Check the
throttle in particular. I have seen digital servo cases melt from
having the throw set up further than the linkage will allow. If that's
not it, disconnect the linkages at servo and work the control surface
by hand. If it does not move very freely, fix it. If you don't find
the problem there, work the servos around in a 10 minute mock flight on
the ground, except exaggerate the movements considerably since there
will be no air load and engine vibration to add to the load. Listen to
each servo. If it sounds like it's having a problem, remove it and
check it out on the bench. If there's nothing obviously wrong by the
sound of things, then feel the servo cases to see
if any of them are getting warm, or even try smelling them for that
characteristic smell that hot electronics tend to have. If there is a
regulator that got so hot as to discolor it, and there is nothing at
all wrong with the linkages or control surfaces, then this ought to
find the culprit.
Ed
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Cotton "
<davercotton at hotmail.com>
To: "colin chariandy " <cchariandy at yahoo.ca>;
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>; <glmiller3 at suddenlink.net>
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
You will need a very good meter
to read the current, because a fully
loaded digital setup takes the current in short spikes and most meters
do not have a good enough frequency response. I have tried using a very
good quality HP meter with over 20k frequency response and concluded
it's not accurate, but it does give you a ball park number and will
indicate if you have a serious problem. I have monitored my receiver
voltage using a FDR data recorder and using two nimh batteries pack in
parallel see at least one volt drop spikes at the receiver when the
servos are heavily loaded. I run 2 20amp schottky diode connected
packs in parallel for safety. You can be sure that these spikes are
5amps or more. I placed a Castel reg in the circuit and it drops the
spikes to a few
hundred millivolts
The average current draw is around 250 mA for 2 masters sequences.
Hope this helps. Incidentally the regulator does not get hot.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: colin chariandy <cchariandy at yahoo.ca>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:40:21
To: <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>; <glmiller3 at suddenlink.net>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
Yes.
I can't find by physical inspection any "wacked out servos" or other
issues that might cause increased current load on the regulator.
So....I'm trying to find the typical (or average) current that should
be seen at any moment (inst
ant) on a meter in-line with the regulator.
Then I'll run my set-up and compare. If I'm in the ball park (less than
1A based on a couple of inputs so far) then the problem is not related
to "wacked out" servos, binding etc.
Colin
--- On Mon, 4/27/09, Ed Alt <ed_alt at hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Ed Alt <ed_alt at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org, glmiller3 at suddenlink.net
Received: Monday, April 27, 2009, 3:25 PM
Average current is not the same as instantaneous current, unless the
only current being drawn was just for that single instant in time.
Anyway, I will repeat, with an added quailifer, for the sake of
understanding for where to look to help you solve the problem:
If you are using a JACCIO, Tech-Aero, or whatever regulator in a
pattern setup, even with a YS CDI on a shared output, and if you find
that you need a heat sink, then:
Something Else Is Wrong. Check your setup for binding linkages, stiff
hinges, whacked out servos, whatever.
Seriously, check your setup, OK? Just trying to help here.
Regards
Ed
----------------
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 10:32:54 -0700
From: cchariandy at yahoo.ca
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; glmiller3 at suddenlink.net
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
Actually, if you consumed 200mAhr in 0.25hrs, then your average
(instantaneous) current was 800mA.0D
Colin.
--- On Mon, 4/27/09, glmiller3 at suddenlink.net
<glmiller3 at suddenlink.net> wrote:
From: glmiller3 at suddenlink.net <glmiller3 at suddenlink.net>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Cc: "colin chariandy" <cchariandy at yahoo.ca>
Received: Monday, April 27, 2009, 12:34 PM
Colin,
I'm running a different ignition system, but total consumption radio
and ignition) for an entire 15 minute flight is about 200 mah..200 X4 =
800 milliamps for an hour= 0.8 amps per hour So the
instantaneous current shouldn't be much.
G
---- colin chariandy <cchariandy at yahoo.ca
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca> >
wrote:
=============
Does anyone know what the current consumption should be at idle/run-up
for a typical YS170/Hyde/all digital servos installation?
I'll stick a Watt's Up meter in there to see how much I'm pulling after
the regulator.
Jim, what's the current limit for continuous operation and spike/inrush
for your regulator?
Colin.
--- On Sun, 4/26/09, James Oddino <joddino at socal.rr.com
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=joddino@socal.rr.com> >
wrote:
From: James Oddino <joddino at socal.rr.com
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=joddino@socal.rr.com> >
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
To: cchariandy at yahoo.ca
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.
ca> ,
"General discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrc
a.org> >
Received: Sunday, April 26, 2009, 4:00 PM
I don't believe a bad battery could cause the engine to rev up unless
your battery failsafe isn't set properly. Make sure it is.
The first thing I would look at is the possibility that the throttle
servo is stalled at low speed. That could be pulling the
battery/voltage regulator voltage down and it could recover after you
started to throttle up and removed the heavy load.
Finally I would run a one amp discharge test on the battery after it is
fully charged to see if the battery is near its original capacity. The
best way to
do this is to plot the voltage vs. time taking readings every 5 to 10
minutes.
Hope this helps. Let us know what you find.
Jim
On Apr 25, 2009, at 4:30 PM, cchariandy at yahoo.ca
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
I had a close call today with my R921 Rx in an Integral.
I noticed on taxi out that the engine rev'd up and quickly back down
without any command. At first I thought I must have bumped the stick by
accident. Then just before take-off there was no responce from the
throttle for a second or two then it was back. I thought the 170 may
have loaded up a lit
tle and didnt respond. It did that one more time
before
I aborted the flight. However, I could'nt reproduce the problem in
the pits.
Before powering down, I checked for holds or fades on the data logger -
nil.
Battery voltage droped from 8.2V to 7.8V and 7.6 under 1A load. When I
re-charged it took 350mA and I was only on for 3-4 mins.
Now...I did accidentally run the battery down to like 5V during winter
but it did eventually recharge.
I'm using a Jaccio perfect switch/6V regulator, Jaccio 2000mAHr (1
season
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