[NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs
Ron Van Putte
vanputte at cox.net
Tue Mar 3 11:08:29 AKST 2009
Yeah and, if things get slow, we can always start/restart one on
spins and snaps.
Ron
On Mar 3, 2009, at 12:46 PM, Budd Engineering wrote:
> Ok, that makes sense. Sounds like we should consider dropping the
> scoring of TO's & L's in Masters to save time since Masters always
> runs long at our contests?
>
> Hey to RVP! - What's the over/under on how long this thread will
> run? I figure if we can get Keith H. involved we can keep it going
> for a week or more! : )
>
> Jerry
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 3, 2009, at 10:07 AM, "J Shu" <jshulman at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Because it takes time to make a perfect take-off and landing, and
>> currently the time stops after the half roll after the 45-downs.
>> We wouldn't have enough time unless the time limit was raised.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jason
>> www.shulmanaviation.com
>> www.composite-arf.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Budd Engineering
>> To: General pattern discussion
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 12:56 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs
>>
>>
>> Why would FAI have less time for scored TO's/L's than any other
>> class? With the exception of Sportsman (and possibly
>> Intermediate), FAI flys the shortest sequence. Masters in
>> particular takes way longer.
>>
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 3, 2009, at 8:25 AM, "J Shu" <jshulman at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm certainly not THE expert... I'm just going by my
>> observations of pattern now to pattern when I was a kid. Like
>> Stuart said, nothing beat a nose high take-off or landing down the
>> centerline... and not many could do it. At least back then the
>> only planes I remember running from weren't pattern planes, but
>> scale planes!
>>
>> I used to always lose bets with my brother for the best take-
>> off and landings cause his Ugly Stick was the perfect plane for
>> that. He would line it up on the center line and roll down the
>> runway, lift the nose just before the judges and break ground just
>> after... 10. And then do the same thing for landing and get 10's
>> there too. But his loops always ended up in the next county so I
>> won the flying bets.
>>
>> FAI doesn't need to have scored take-offs and landings... we
>> don't have time for it. But I don't see why AMA shouldn't be
>> scored (and taught) on take-offs and landings. If you're a good
>> pilot, then these should be freebie points for the taking.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jason
>> www.shulmanaviation.com
>> www.composite-arf.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: George W.Kennie
>> To: General pattern discussion
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:46 AM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs
>>
>>
>> There you have it from THE expert !!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: J Shu
>> To: General pattern discussion
>> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs
>>
>>
>> I'd much rather see take-offs and landings be judged.
>> What's the incentive of having a pilot learn how to learn a proper
>> (and safe) take-off and landing if there is no 10 to shoot for?
>> And not a 0 or 10, but scored. Just because it wouldn't be scored
>> doesn't make a pilot try and make a safe take-off or landing.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jason
>> www.shulmanaviation.com
>> www.composite-arf.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Tim Taylor
>> To: General pattern discussion
>> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:53 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs
>>
>>
>> I agree, TO's and Landings shouldn't be judged. Add
>> one turn around and center maneuver to the classes that score
>> them. Exit the box down wind then they can make a 180 to landing.
>> Tim
>>
>> --- On Mon, 3/2/09, George W.Kennie
>> <geobet4 at verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> From: George W.Kennie <geobet4 at verizon.net>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and
>> Takeoffs
>> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-
>> discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 4:44 PM
>>
>>
>> I think that dropping the scoring of TOs and LGs
>> with the intent of reducing risk will be only minimally effective.
>> There are always going to be individuals who will experience
>> difficulty with crossing winds, turbulance, ineptitude, whatever,
>> no matter how many times they go around. I can think of
>> individuals who would include me in the group.
>>
>> G.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: J N Hiller
>> To: bob at toprudder.com ; General pattern discussion
>> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 3:13 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and
>> Takeoffs
>>
>>
>> You make a good argument for dropping takeoff
>> and landing scoring. I have aborted landings more than once.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Bob
>> Richards
>> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 10:28 AM
>> To: General pattern discussion
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and
>> Takeoffs
>>
>>
>> I'll say it here, JMHO. I personally don't
>> think takeoffs and landings should be judged. These are the
>> maneuvers that put the plane closest to the pilots/judges/
>> spectators. I've seen some bad takeoffs and landing approaches
>> pushed to dangerous situations when they would probably have been
>> aborted had they not been scored maneuvers. At the very least, the
>> airplane is at risk. At the most, people are at risk. I've had one
>> plane fly behind my head at the Nats (between myself, my caller,
>> and the judges) during a landing when the plane got away from the
>> pilot during one such occurance. I've also seen a plane slam into
>> a person in the pits at full throttle, just after lifting off the
>> ground, when the plane first veered away from the pits and the
>> pilot forced the takeoff by kicking rudder to get it back on the
>> runway. At no point did he back off the throttle. In most
>> situations such as this, anyone would have aborted and started
>> over, but because they are being judged they keep on pushing a bad
>> situation.
>>
>>
>> And, no, niether situation involved someone
>> in the Sportsman or Intermediate classes. These were both
>> contestants that had flown pattern for several years.
>>
>>
>> I thank god they don't judge takeoffs and
>> landings in IMAC.
>>
>>
>> JM2CW
>>
>>
>> Bob R.
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Mon, 3/2/09, George W.Kennie
>> <geobet4 at verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I don't feel the same way as John on the
>> landing maneuver being relegated to a non-skill element.
>>
>>
>>
>> All aerobatic maneuvers that we perform
>> competitively require that we demonstrate to a judge that we have
>> developed some precise degree of control over the airframe under
>> our command. To achieve this control further requires intense
>> concentration on the part of the pilot. I would offer that there
>> are many airborne maneuvers where the degree of concentration
>> required by the pilot are significantly lower than that required
>> to bring the airframe back into contact with terra firma and
>> demonstrate complete and confident control. This is a skill that
>> is worthy of reward in my viewpoint.
>>
>>
>> G.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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