[NSRCA-discussion] Weight

Thu Jun 4 10:01:03 AKDT 2009

FAI fliers which design most of the planes on the market will design for FAI rules. Therefore the "It's going to get out of hand" crowd are wrong. It's already out of hand anyway.

Let the Few who fly FAI follow the FAI rules. We don't have to on the AMA level. Problem solved.

I preached this last year. Either follow and enforce the rules or get rid of them. Not just "At the NATS" if you might get some Iron.

Tim
--- On Thu, 6/4/09, John Pavlick <jpavlick at idseng.com> wrote:

From: John Pavlick <jpavlick at idseng.com>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 1:51 PM

What everyone is dancing around is the fact that there are 2 definitions of "takeoff weight". One for glow / gas powered airplanes and one for electrics. Being an engineer and a somewhat logically minded person I would say that the correct definition of "takeoff weight" would include batteries, fuel, protoplasm -  whatever is necessary to allow the airplane to fly. I'm sure most people would agree. 

The "problem" comes form the fact that some people believe there is no way of verifying the amount of fuel that would be put into a glow / gas airplane when it's weighed (people might put half a tank of fuel in and then get the airplane weighed), so they decided to weigh them without fuel. Solved the problem - but created another one when electrics became popular. Let's see. How hard is it to make sure you have a full tank of fuel? Doesn't it run out of the overflow? Is it really that hard? I know it might take longer to verify that the tank is full but if that's what needs to be done then so be it. How do you know that the batteries are installed in an electric? How can you be sure that every time that plane is flown in the contest, the batteries will weigh the same (someone could weigh in with smaller batteries)?

I REALLY wish more of you guys were involved in car racing. 99% of these ridiculous "problems" would be avoided. Here's how it works: Before the car goes on the track it's inspected. If it meets the rules (weight, size, safety equipment, etc.) it gets stickered. NOW it can race. Cars are usually checked before they go out and when they come off the track. If you place in the top 3 the engine usually gets torn apart. Cheaters get caught by the tech. inspectors. Everyone knows the rules and all the cars running in a given class must meet those rules. It's not rocket science. If a bunch of good ole' boys at a dirt track can do it - why can't we? LOL

Simple solution to this seemingly impossible to solve problem: come up with a weight limit that is reasonable for a 2-meter Pattern plane that's READY TO FLY. That means an electric with batteries and a glow airplane with a full tank of fuel. Of course you can fly with less fuel or smaller batteries if you want to be lighter but what we're looking for is a worst case / maximum weight scenario. To be fair, the planes should be weighed before thay take off and after they land. Do you need to do this at local contests? No, I don't think so. How many planes are weighed at local contests now? Should you do this at the Nationals? Absolutely. Anythng else will only lead to more discussion, explanation and discontent. 

John Pavlick

--- On Thu, 6/4/09, J N Hiller <jnhiller at earthlink.net> wrote:

From: J N Hiller <jnhiller at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 1:08 PM

Using the FAI weight limit allow one to fly the same airplane in both FAI
and AMA pattern.
Jim Hiller

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Bill's Email
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 9:42 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weight

What everyone is dancing around here is the fact that the 5 kg (+/- 11
pound) weight limit is a completely arbitrary number that has no
foundation in anything other than FAI used to have this limit for all RC
models. In FAI being at or below 5 kg was what defined you as a radio
controlled "model" airplane.

Here is the weight rule for F3B gliders:

5.3.1.3. Characteristics of Radio Controlled Gliders F3B
a) Maximum flying mass ........................................ 5 kg

F3J Gliders:

5.6.1.3. Characteristics of Radio Controlled Gliders
a) Maximum Flying Mass .................................. 5 kg

F3F Slope RAcing Gliders:

5.F.2. Characteristics of Radio Controlled Slope Gliders
Maximum flying mass ........................................ 5 kg

F3C helis are now 6 KG so even the FAI can change their minds.

Point being is that the 5 kg "limit" has no real life basis beyond what
was in the FAI sporting code at the time the AMA rules were written. FAI
was not looking at all the convoluted logic about cost, etc. At the time
that was simply how they defined (and still do for many RC events) what
a model airplane is.

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